Gideonn1021 OP t1_izgzpz9 wrote on December 9, 2022 at 1:08 AM

Reply to comment by jkershaw in Conflict in Central Europe leading to Bronze Age Collapse by Gideonn1021

I agree it is not at all the definitive idea of what occurred, based off of this educated guess work there is a general trend of moving west to east however which I find interesting. Thank you for referring to Central Europe I was unsure if there is current evidence towards any major events occurring but I imagine it seems unlikely, especially if they did not keep any records it will be nearly impossible for us to learn what truly happened over there.

Referring to your last point I believe I have seen much which refers to the successive collapses occurring in a 50-75 year span, however this definitely neglects the early stages of a collapse that are more hidden, that number focuses only on the dates when each city collapsed

jkershaw t1_izh0mzu wrote on December 9, 2022 at 1:15 AM

The west to east trend only seems to be true because most of the people in the east were the ones writing. Could have been people going the other way too but because there are fewer sources it creates the impression that there wasn't.

As for period, the turbulence went on for a much longer period than that. Take Crete - the Minoans suffered several palatial destructions in the 2-300 years before the 'final' collapse in 1200BC, including the invasion/transition into Mycenaean culture. The same is true across the board. There may have been a cluster around the 'end' of the bronze age, but considering how hard it is to date things cohesively, these could have been generations apart and represent totally different events.

Gideonn1021 OP t1_izh2233 wrote on December 9, 2022 at 1:26 AM

You are absolutely right I didn't think about the bias that exists with these theories because of the records that exist. Your points also make me wonder how much the Minoan and Mycenaean turmoil affected their counterparts across the Mediterranean, as in whether they themselves were a major factor leading to general collapse or they were victims of a larger chain of events along with everyone else

jkershaw t1_izh2dsr wrote on December 9, 2022 at 1:28 AM

It's very possible. There are lots of records of the various rulers sending each other both the raw materials they depended on for their economies as well as the prestige goods they used to demonstrate their superiority and right to rule.

CallFromMargin t1_izhymae wrote on December 9, 2022 at 6:04 AM

I'm pretty sure there are some evidence of mass migration from today's northern Italy to Greece, and that's based on pins found along the way. Although it's possible those cloth pins were just being traded.