Submitted by Brattonismybae t3_zudypq in history
BarcodeBellend t1_j1jybt1 wrote
Reply to comment by CucumberBoy00 in Did Oliver Cromwell Ban Christmas? by Brattonismybae
Not a Cromwell supporter by any means, and I don't think any sane person would argue he was a good person....
But what he actually did at the time wasn't considered terribly brutal.
Basically he just killed everyone who didn't surrender.
It's actually a really common thing if you look at siege warfare. Soldiers just went nuts and we're extremely brutal to sieges where the people did not surrender.
There's a lot to blame him for.... However his sieges are basically par for the course...
Look at the siege of szigetvar, a few of the mongol sieges, etc. There are baseline genocidal sieges throughout history.
Looked at by the lens of today naturally it's absolutely horrible, but yeah at the time....Completely normal.
I'd honestly blame religion and royalists for it all far more than Cromwell.
Here's some reading for you.
cionn t1_j1k9qg5 wrote
You're right, and i think there are more to blame such as Henry Ireton for the brutality caused in Ireland but lets not downplay the brutality of Cromwell.
The 1640s campaign was the latest in a 100 year campaign of genocide of Irish culture and people that expands beyond arguments of contemporary tactics.
The Tudor reconquest had a particular aim to destroy Gaelic culture, outlined in great detail in works by Lord Camden and Edmund Spencer, including tactics of scorched earth and how best to kill an displace Irish from the land. This ending in the flight of the earls was the major hammer blow tpogaelic civilisation.
Its was still surviving afterwards for the following years but Cromwell firmly put the secular gaelic order in its grave. By the time of William of Oranges wars a few decades late all that was left was its religious distinction until the gaelic revival of the late 19th century.
So in relation to destroying Irish heritage Cromwell was by no means the only the only vicious agent of it, but was undoubtedly the head of the most brutal. It just theres more blame to go around
BarcodeBellend t1_j1kfkwu wrote
Sorry I didn't respond to your rather well delivered comment with something more interesting, but it is Christmas(happy Christmas btw),and trust me I have no love for the Tudors either as a welshman hahaha.
[deleted] t1_j1klvts wrote
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Physical_Magazine_33 t1_j1k9fis wrote
"Normal" and "evil" are not opposites.
the_jak t1_j1m42q7 wrote
I don’t make excuses for my racist grandmother, I’m not making excuses for Cromwells genocide.
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