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TargetOfPerpetuity t1_j4q1kr8 wrote

Being that it's lines scratched into rock, would it be difficult to produce similar runes today, and age them to look as old as these do?

−18

LupusDeusMagnus t1_j4qqhj0 wrote

Replying to TargetOfPerpetuity (#1,385,187)

Not impossible, but it’s more difficult than you’d imagine, and the context of the finding would need to corroborate it.

Runes vary a lot geographically and over time, so if you find some runes that look completely different from the ones that you’d expect to find, it’s either a very strange carving or a forgery.

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Sjuffaluffa t1_j4qqqmr wrote

There is more to be found just across the fjord. Seen several mysterious mounds around Breiliflakene.

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InspectorG-007 t1_j4rczus wrote

Ronald Weasley... It's, " Fus Ro DAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

−23

_inappropriate_puns_ t1_j4rneqv wrote

Replying to Ferengi_Earwax (#1,388,379)

> Eight of the runes on the front face of the stone may be spelling out the name of a woman, according to Kristel Zelmers analysis. “The text possibly refers to a woman called Idibera and the inscription could mean 'For Idibera',” says Professor Zilmer. Other possibilities are that idiberug is the rendering of a name such as Idibergu or Idiberga, or perhaps the kin name Idiberung.

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apocolipse t1_j4romgl wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,385,176)

It's worth noting that's about 1000 years earlier than most sources of Old Norse writing, and even contemporary or slightly older than the earliest written Germanic language that we have comprehensive material on, Gothic (which we just have the Gothic bible, from around the 3rd - 4th century AD). That means the language written on it was likely proto-norse or proto-north-germanic, languages we can only guess at reconstructing.

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Ferengi_Earwax t1_j4rot3c wrote

Replying to _inappropriate_puns_ (#1,388,721)

Yes. This is good to include in the TIL. Those names certainly fit. I wonder if further excavation might fund cremation burials nearby if it's a prominent family name. Be much easier to find if multiple family members were cremated than if it was just one lady named ideberga.

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Hushwater t1_j4rqmye wrote

Did they find it in a hole or a place called Hole?

4

Seeker2211 t1_j4rr7lz wrote

Been reading a history of the Vikings. Did not know a huge amount of their wealth was slaves. And they believed fervently in magic, the best women were sorceresses.

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Beat9 t1_j4sjhia wrote

Congratulations! You have found a Runestone!

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WrestlingLeaks t1_j4skipu wrote

If they use GPS they can make sure if they in fact are in Norway or not

−7

qleptt t1_j4sscvv wrote

An American here. We go to this farm every year for pumpkins and in the past years there has been this solid thing of quarts or marble slab that was literally just sitting on the side of a barn where the parking lot is and it was full of runes. A very weird thing but it wasnt there this year.

9

Ach_Du_Lieber t1_j4sz533 wrote

Well, I believe in Norway too. And I’m not even an archaeologist.

−2

And-ray-is t1_j4t0bjx wrote

Replying to Seeker2211 (#1,390,161)

Yes, but what was their definition of magic? You have to ask yourself that

Was it all just chants / rituals or was there real world applications. Like what they ate for nutrition or for hallucinations, meditation before battle and training etc. Would love to be a fly on the wall for those times.

Definitely not living in them

26

Seeker2211 t1_j4t2whn wrote

Replying to And-ray-is (#1,391,531)

If you believe it works...it DOES work ? You go and pay 12 silver coins to the "sorceress" lady puts a curse on your romantic rival...and you get the girl, however that happens, then didn't the curse work ?

If you don't get the girl, get a refund, right ? Fair is fair.

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Idreamofknights t1_j4t4igv wrote

Replying to Seeker2211 (#1,388,931)

More than that. To use magic of spells, concealment and visions was the domain of women, it was seidr. Men who did that were dishonorable. Male magic was of battle, to embody a warrior spirit like the ulfhednar or to craft enchanted weapons.

8

maanofculture t1_j4tl07l wrote

Honest question here. What exactly is a rune stone?

1

Termsandconditionsch t1_j4tlbo8 wrote

Replying to imnotslavic (#1,391,439)

Not really. It’s an autonym from the same root as slovo (word). Most likely it worked the same way as for the Greeks - they split the world into those who could speak properly, and barbarians.

Theres a reason German is Niemcy (mute) in Polish and a couple of other slavic languages..

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booga_booga_partyguy t1_j4tpoc9 wrote

Replying to ActivisionBlizzard (#1,386,695)

More critically, why would anyone invest that kind of time and effort to pull off a prank with little payoff?

Just gaining the expertise needed to carve the right kind of runes that are era appropriate alone will require at least the equivalent of post-grad level of knowledge.

8

OldRuskiNoir t1_j4tu45w wrote

Was it a Ber? Maybe I can finally can make my infinity!

−4

Geiten t1_j4tv4ez wrote

Replying to Idreamofknights (#1,391,754)

I think that is too one-sided, and probably comes from the stereotype that viking society was mainly concerned with battle. Male magic was also communicating with dead relatives to keep them at peace and I believe controlling the weather.

8

RE5TE t1_j4txav3 wrote

Replying to Geiten (#1,393,228)

> stereotype that viking society was mainly concerned with battle.

Viking society was preoccupied with plunder, not battle. If I remember correctly, farms were given to the eldest son, so as not to split them up. Lots of small farms can't feed enough people.

If you're not an eldest son, you need money to buy land. Norway in particular does not have a lot of settled arable land. So you join a group heading south to plunder.

Battle is not necessary, especially when you reach countries full of unarmed farmers. Vikings sailed up the river to Paris and essentially demanded a ton of gold and silver. If you're a fat farmer it was just better to pay them to leave. They were usually pretty good at leaving so it worked out for everyone.

Do you want to fight Sven who literally rowed across the ocean to cleave in your skull, or just pay him some money? Also Sven is 6ft tall and ripped, you are 5ft 5 and armed with a pitchfork.

8

Idreamofknights t1_j4txhbs wrote

Replying to Geiten (#1,393,228)

I see the communion with relatives as more of a expression of religion, and I'm curious about the controlling weather part. But the part about spells and ritualized magic being the domain of women is true, both to heal and to curse. There were men who did magic, but they're shamed by their society as argr, dishonorable and unmanly, and even Odin himself is shamed like this because he uses it to see his visions, while his wife Freya is hailed for it. Magic is widely considered a very gendered concept in Norse society by many scholars.

2

Akki_Fan t1_j4u4xru wrote

This is definitely the proof and evidence of my religion ~ every religious businessman priest ever.

−5

Frgty t1_j4u93r0 wrote

I'd say that's a reasonable assumption, and a good place to look for them.

1

doctorcrimson t1_j4uaw2u wrote

Be cooler to find artifacts from the era of change over to more modern languages, like a Rosetta Stone for the Norse.

2

Raudskeggr t1_j4ugisk wrote

Replying to Seeker2211 (#1,388,931)

But these were not "Vikings", lets be perfectly clear. This is from 600-800 years before the beginning of the viking age. The fact that this stone has runes (albeit crudly carved) suggests that whoever carved it was, or had close ties to, the Northwest Germanic people of the age; but much much earlier than the Norse culture romanticized in stories of Vikings.

9

jereezy t1_j4uirj5 wrote

Headline sucks. Archeologists believe...what exactly?

  1. That they found a rune stone?
  2. That it's in Norway?
  3. That it's the oldest?
−5

Raudskeggr t1_j4uj0aa wrote

For those curious what the legible portion of it says, the runes spell out this (assuming phonetics consistent with the Elder Futhark it appears to be):

>I D I B E R U G

As the article speculated, it might be a name. But we don't know.

From the nice photograph at the top of the article, there is more carving on the stone, but it doesn't tell us a lot:

> I? Z B ? L A E

These letters probably don't spell out anything meaningful, at least in a literal sense. They could be intended for another purpose; they could be initials of names, they could be intended as "magical" (or have some other ritualistic/religious purpose), or they could just be complete gibberish.

I personally think the theory of it being a grave stone, naming the dead seems like the strongest explanation, as that does seem to be a name; though we cannot be certain even of that. The rest of it? We can only speculate.

But what it says on the runestone is not what makes this find most valuable; the age is the significant part. Finding an example of runic writing that far north, that early. We don't know much the development of runic writing; but this helps add to our understanding. IT most likely did develop from a north italic or etruscan script; We find some very old germanic artifacts using such scripts. But we have yet to find anything that might show us a transition from that to Futhark. previously we don't see anything that looks like north germanic runes earlier than 150; which would put this artifact right on that same cusp.

18

christian4tal t1_j4ulanb wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,394,046)

You semi-jest of course but in doing so you also remove focus from the real slavery problems of today: Millions in Asia, Africa and the Middle East held in slave or slave-like conditions. Not to speak of sex-trafficking all over the world. Americans prisons are a minimal problem in this context.

4

RevolutionaryLook585 t1_j4uli73 wrote

Replying to Riplexx (#1,394,137)

There are also way more people now than at any time in human history.

If this this accurate and it's 2000 years old, then the population of the earth at that time was around and 200m.

It's a very misleading statement, but obviously modern day slavery is horrific and should be condemned and annihilated.

3

LateInTheAfternoon t1_j4uligh wrote

Replying to Linden_Lea_01 (#1,394,009)

*fairly well. There are still a lot of conundrums. More to the point, the language here is not Old Norse but proto-Norse for which our knowledge is very limited partly due to the relatively few samples we have of the language, partly due to how much Old Norse has deviated from proto-Norse.

3

pm_me_ur_demotape t1_j4v3vjc wrote

I am confused about it being possiby the oldest ever but only being about 2000 years old. Or I just don’t really know what runes are.

1

Seeker2211 t1_j4vqk21 wrote

Replying to Raudskeggr (#1,394,131)

Agreed, my understanding is that viking "age" grew gradually during and after the decline of Roman Empire, and in fact a lot of the raiding happened 'cause the Roman "authorities" were lapsed/gone.

1

abdiel0MG t1_j4wmgli wrote

I wanna know the stats. I've been dying to upgrade my runes!

1