Submitted by ItalianMama95 t3_100k3cm in massachusetts
misterforsa t1_j2ien63 wrote
Reply to comment by ItalianMama95 in Homeless with a 3 year old by ItalianMama95
Would the law call it kidnapping in this case? Perhaps not given your circumstances. Even if it was kidnapping and you stay in UK permanently, I doubt the state of MA is gonna extradite you for it
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2ifvgh wrote
Yea it would still class as kidnapping because it would be me refusing to bring his son back to him especially when we have notarized agreement.
Golden_apple6492 t1_j2iib53 wrote
Hey OP, you might want to consider talking to Greater Boston Legal Services’ Relocation Project about the situation. They may be able to give you some advice about how to move towards permanently relocating back to the UK.
buried_lede t1_j2jbzjc wrote
This - listen to this person
LackingUtility t1_j2ih9vn wrote
That agreement may be unenforceable. Rather than coming back and being homeless, you may want to talk to a lawyer.
ETA: I'm starting to wonder if this is a creative writing exercise, given that OP hasn't responded to anyone pointing out that the "notarized agreement" is unenforceable and that kidnapping charges are highly unlikely if not impossible, while child endangerment charges and loss of custody are far more likely.
dorkydancer t1_j2jj172 wrote
Not to mention their comment history looks sus af. The whole thing smells scammy to me. I’ve seen scammy people on Reddit use children as bait to get people to send them money. If this is legit, then my bad, but something seems off. Be careful friendly people.
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2jt2r3 wrote
Ive stated that I cannot just keep my child in the UK. My sons father was abusive and narcissistic. He has a lot of family in the US and contacts to the police and fire. He will definitely pursue kidnapping charges if I don’t bring my son back. No offense but you don’t know the person I’m dealing with or every detail about my situation. You say about scammy people trying to get money from people, I have had people reaching out to me offering to help me with money, clothes and general items for my child. I have said no, I’m not asking for money and my child is not in need of anything right now. I am simply asking for ideas to keep an active 3 year old entertained while living in a car while I pursue help with shelters because the chances of me getting a bed right away are very slim. Please do not make comments when you know nothing of the situation besides a few sentences. It can be very triggering for someone especially like myself when I’ve reached out to people before and they never want to help. I find it very hard to ask for help because everyone always wants my help but never want to help me. I don’t get as much help from the government because I am not a us citizen. So please be more thoughtful and kind with your words. Thank you and happy new year.
LackingUtility t1_j2jtuuo wrote
I don’t know about your situation, but I am a Massachusetts lawyer. Everything you’ve said suggests that you’re wrong about the possibility of kidnapping charges, but that you will be putting your child in danger and likely lose custody if you do come to Massachusetts and live in your car.
SpindriftRascal t1_j2jvhz1 wrote
On the given facts, OP is not wrong about the possibility of a kidnapping charge. See 18 USC 1204.
Of course, we have no way of predicting whether the father would file a complaint, or whether it would actually lead to an IPK charge, but it’s certainly possible. OP’s mention of kidnapping suggests to me that it has come up as a topic and she is wise to aware of the possibility.
LackingUtility t1_j2jvvm9 wrote
Staying in the UK where the child is not homeless would likely not be considered intent to deprive the father of parental rights though. OP would also have a necessity defense.
SpindriftRascal t1_j2jwepj wrote
Sure, I’d make that argument. But she doesn’t want to be in position to have to argue that, does she? I’m not opining on what she should do. I’m just pointing out that an IPK charge is certainly possible in this situation.
Edit: correcting omission of the word “in.”
LackingUtility t1_j2k1bt7 wrote
She may…. We don’t have all the facts, hence why OP should talk to a lawyer.
But OP has ignored that advice every time it’s been given. I wonder if the kid wouldn’t be better off with the father.
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2jzoz6 wrote
Yes it has definitely come up in topic before hence why I am so cautious about it. Yes I know it is a real possibility as I have looked into. I have pleaded and begged his father to let me stay here or to take his son full time and he refuses. It’s all part of his control over me still from the abusive relationship.
Any_Strawberry5747 t1_j2kdvbi wrote
Could this lawyer be any help? This lawyer is right that she is wrong about the possibility of kidnapping charges. The charges will go toward to the father for putting child in danger by putting you both without a roof to live on plus he has to pay child support so there is money which will get you place to stay.
The court system is more interested in seeing the mother and child have shelter than seeing them live in the car.
It sounded more of the father threatening which could get the father in trouble.
I d pray that the mother and the child will have shelter than seeing them living in the car.
dorkydancer t1_j2jwgkq wrote
I said what I said, and I stand by it.
tasareinspace t1_j2jy9av wrote
Yeah, I'm a notary and like... all a notary does is confirm "yep, this person signed this piece of paper", the fact that it's notarized just means its confirmed that you signed it, it doesnt make or not make a contract enforceable if its not legal.
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2jtafj wrote
This is definitely not a creative writing piece. I am reaching out to shelters, don’t want to keep replying to people telling me to stay in the UK when that isn’t an option. I just want ideas to keep my 3 year old entertained while living in a car for a short time until a shelter has space for me.
[deleted] t1_j2kijpt wrote
Puzzles, plastic bath toys, coloring books, markers, crayons, play dough, stamps and an ink pad. I recommend contacting HAWC. They help a lot. They have things in their office they can give you. Toiletries. Bedding. Clothing. Toys. They sometimes have gift cards for local grocery stores, etc.
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2kp5g9 wrote
Thank you for the ideas. I haven’t heard of HAWC so I will look into them.
[deleted] t1_j2kri8u wrote
I have used them in the past when I was leaving an abusive situation. They will help you fill out forms and help you figure out what steps to take. They also have an option where you can get free legal advice from a lawyer who works with them. They won’t be representing you - they won’t be YOUR lawyer - but they are lawyers who will meet with you for an hour and give you legal advice for questions you have. HAWC also has people who work inside the courthouse with victims and they will help you to fill out forms and sit with you in court and be a support system for you. My case ended up escalating to where the police messed up and I fought it so one of the lawyers from HAWC decided to be my lawyer with no charge. Not that they will always do that or be able to, but it’s possible.
[deleted] t1_j2krmkl wrote
They can usually help you find a shelter too. Housing is backed up so bad, they can’t really shortcut that. But I definitely recommend going to them. I have myself.
LackingUtility t1_j2kwtfy wrote
Why are you not replying to any of the people who pointed out how this path almost certainly will cause you to lose custody (and potentially face charges of neglect and child endangerment) and that talking to a lawyer is the best course of action?
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2kzfxl wrote
I have responded to a couple. I have no other choice. You do not know my child’s father the way I do. He also has connections to the police. He is controlling and it is all a way for him to control me. I have no other choice but to return to the US. I will be speaking with. DTA, DCF, Shelters, everywhere that I can to help seek shelter. Either way I’m at risk of losing my child. I’m and holding out hope that I will be given shelter. But I can’t control what space they have available. How about instead of trying to dig and accuse my situation of being fake, either provide some real advice for the question I’m asking or move on to another post. You’re not helping anyone right now with your comments.
LackingUtility t1_j2l1k8c wrote
If this is real, this is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Let's you're telling the truth and your ex - in Massachusetts - really has strong connections to the police - presumably also in Massachusetts... So you're going to leave the UK, where your ex doesn't have connections to the bobbies, and going to a place where your ex has all the power, and you're likely going to be committing several crimes by endangering your child. Shit, why not just show up at your ex's house, throw a kilo of coke down like a smoke bomb, and hand him a pair of handcuffs?
Again, if this is real, here's some real advice - talk to a lawyer before you move back. There are free services for people in your position, both in the US and the UK. Heck, there's a dozen law schools in the Boston area that all have free clinics.
Or, alternately, just send your son to your ex. Because that's effectively what you're doing, and at least that way you'll stay out of jail.
But this probably isn't real, because at this point, it's just too stupid to be believed.
mallorn_hugger t1_j2ojtqn wrote
I suspect drugs are involved here. Not because she's in an abusive relationship, and not because she is facing homelessness, but because of her nonsensical arguments.
When I had a friend who had a son about the same age, just under three, she had me help her escape her abusive husband. Don't get me wrong, he was an asshole. However, she was back on drugs and was lying through her teeth about it. She made circular arguments like this that made absolutely no sense. She hyped up her victim status, adding more and more embellishments to her husband's behavior. I have no doubt that her husband was a bad man, and I blame his abusive, controlling behavior has the thing that ultimately brought her back to drugs. However, in hindsight, I understand how much she was blowing things up, exaggerating, and lying. The drug use was also making her paranoid, hypervigilant, and skewing her perceptions of reality.
The question here shouldn't be "how can I keep my 3-year-old entertained in a car all day", but "how can I keep us from living in our car". Blows my mind that she has made these assumptions, without even consulting a lawyer. My friend also refused to follow legal advice, and kept lying and trying to manipulate the system, and trying to get people to believe her as a victim. Ultimately, she permanently lost custody of her son. I am not in touch with her anymore, but I know that her husband has full custody and she has visitation rights, and it has now been 5 years.
OP, if you read this, for the love, talk to a lawyer and follow their advice. At least make a post over on r/legal. You are saying things, and making assumptions about the system, that just simply do not make sense. It's like you're getting all of your understanding of the world from a Lifetime movie. That's why people are having a hard time believing you. No one can understand why you would leave home and shelter with your parents, to come live in your car with a preschooler in a Massachusetts winter. If a lawyer tells you it is in your best interest to do so, well that would make that decision make a lot more sense, but to assume that is your only option ( regardless of how bad your ex is, and whether or not he has connections to police) without finding out whether or not that is true is ridiculous. At the end of the day, police actually have very little say over any of this. Custody is determined by the courts, not by police. The police cannot actually legally take your child from you, without a court order, and even then DCF would also be involved. I know this for a fact, because of what I went through with my friend. Also, my father is a lawyer. It doesn't matter how many friends he has, unless they are all willing to give up their careers, the police are not just going to come in and take your kid. That is just not how it works. Now, he could take hold of the kid and refuse to give the kid back to you, and for the same reasons, the police could not take the child away from him. He is the child's legal father, and without a court order, the child cannot be removed from his custody. That is how my friend lost her son. Her husband showed up at their house, and took their child, and she never had custody of the child again. Granted, he took the child while my friend was high on drugs, and my friend lost her child because she couldn't pass a drug test. If my friend had passed her drug test, and hadn't been actively using, the courts would have worked out a custody order, and she would have had shared custody, or perhaps full custody, because her husband was no Peach either. That poor kid. He really got the short end of the stick....
MalyutkaB t1_j2l7lbc wrote
No no, he is controlling and manipulating so she must come back, live in a car, lose her child and then?????
GalacticP t1_j2kp7cm wrote
You’re the one telling us that none of the shelters in multiple states had room for you before. Why are you so sure this time will be different?
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2kpi4g wrote
Im not saying it will be different. That is why I am seeking ways to entertain my child while living out of a car until I can get space in a shelter or secure childcare and a job and get an apartment.
fendent t1_j2iimke wrote
Speak to a lawyer about this rather than making assumptions (if you haven’t already). Agreements are only enforceable if a judge agrees. Family courts are (supposed to be) about the safety and best interests of the child.
misterforsa t1_j2ihni8 wrote
As the other guy said, if kidnapping charges are you're biggest concern, talk to a lawyer. You're right to a safety and shelter should supersede the abusive father's right to your child. There shouldn't be any reason to return to the states when you have family in UK willing to take you in.
pro_auto_advisors t1_j2in7iq wrote
Not a lawyer but this is an important distinction.
Is it a court ordered agreement, or merely an agreement between the two of you that was notarized?
The fact that it is notarized doesn’t necessarily make it legally enforceable. If it came from a legal authority then the story is different.
Please seek legal counsel to understand your options.
SpindriftRascal t1_j2jvzzu wrote
No; the story is the same. The federal statute criminalizing international parental kidnapping treats custody the same “whether arising by operation of law, court order, or legally binding agreement of the parties.”
OP - do not take legal advice from Reddit. Not even from lawyers on Reddit. They’re often wrong.
ItalianMama95 OP t1_j2jtfdz wrote
We don’t have any custody agreements through the courts. We both have joint custody right now
LackingUtility t1_j2jvgz6 wrote
Then your notarized agreement means nothing, and you can’t get kidnapping charges. If he ex tries, the cops will say it’s civil, not criminal, and to take it up with the court.
If you come here and endanger your kid by sleeping in your car in a New England winter, you probably will lose the kid though. If they survive, that is.
Crunchyundies t1_j2isqi5 wrote
No… no it would not. Take control of your life. Stop letting men dictate what you do. No court would prosecute you for staying there in order to not make your child homeless
sunshinesamm t1_j2j0x6w wrote
A notarized agreement doesn't hold in custody court
SaveCachalot346 t1_j2ipua0 wrote
Could you take legal action to get full custody whilst living in the UK temporarily
>bring his son back to him especially when we have notarized
chickadeedadee2185 t1_j2jboyc wrote
Yes, they would. Don't doubt anything when it comes to child welfare especially if Dad pushes it. Bad advice.
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