BowTiedAgorist t1_it9lzpv wrote on October 21, 2022 at 11:07 PM

Reply to comment by ShortUSA in Dr. Tom Sherman vows to legalize weed by Final_Act6703

Like I said, we are talking past each other. We agree, but you see government as the solution to those problems - I see them as the cause. So we are both just making those points endlessly.

Your last paragraph is the only thing I need to answer to reflect that (my opinion if you'd like me to expand I'm happy to). Companies can't pay dirt poor labor wages in third world countries without government backing their capital needs. All of the shipping, importing, exporting costs are ASTRONOMICAL... if not for IMEX loans at next to zero percent backing it. Full stop

That labor has an intrinsic value - that value is only undercut because globalism makes it cheaper to have children in sweatshops doing the work vs an adult who expects a wage. A US built refrigerator put food on the table and provided a market for repair, service, and upkeep that kept it running for decades. Now you just buy a new one made in mexico by 50c an hour labor. Those CEO profit margins are even worse than you think and only possible because of global labor markets.

I'm not a big fan of trump - but if he slapped a 10% tariff on all manufactured goods imported to the US and made IMEX charge 2% on their import loans. Maytag would have new facilities across the US because it would instantly make foreign labor a losing proposition. Biden could get my vote tomorrow if that infrastructure bill was designed to end global labor exploitation and put billions toward divesting from the chinese.

The internet wasn't built by private companies - most of the backbone infrastructure it runs on was paid for by government using AT&T\Bell\Comcast to do the work. Telecomms didn't suddenly decide to connect the planet. Not to mention all the research. The internet and race to the moon in my opinion are the only and best arguments for government organization and spending. Free Markets would have never accomplished the task as quickly - and the tech gains we made were ... immeasurable.

All that domestic government spending driving up inflation, cost of living, cost of housing - while wages stayed flat.

I've had fun discussing this and I think you've been very fair minded.

ShortUSA t1_ita1grb wrote on October 22, 2022 at 1:10 AM

How is me agreeing the government is much too large and involved it much too much leads you to think I think it's the solution?

You contradict yourself and don't explain, probably can't, your positions.

You're hell bent on wanting to believe we don't agree on much. You prefer to believe not what I wrote, but your notion of what I believe.

Too bad. There are many Americans like you, hell bent on disagreeing. Too bad for America.

BowTiedAgorist t1_itadfck wrote on October 22, 2022 at 2:50 AM

I'll draw this out as simply as I can.

You view taxes as justified - I view them as the theft, because when you take money from people without their permission under threat of government violence... its theft..

You want a "progressive tax" that funds a government by taxing (robbing) wealthy people more than it taxes (robs) poor people - I don't want people robbed.

I want the government to do FAR FAR less - and suggest funding those few services with more voluntary market based taxes or by simple agency of cooperation - agency that doesn't require force.

You have this notion that government should do less, but advocate for its collection of more revenue (which progressive tax codes are always aimed at) - further that it should do more things with more of the things you think are "redistributive" and less of the things you don't like. This is where we fundamentally disagree. Because:

1 - You are describing the system we already have, you are just disappointed it doesn't do more of what you want. - I know it doesn't do what you want, because its not designed to do what you want.

2 - You think if the tax code was just a bit more progressive - they'd be able to finally do all that stuff you want - I know that the feds pull in about 3 Trillion dollars a year and could do all the wonderful things you want ... if they actually wanted to. Further, when they don't have money to do the things they want to, they just print more of it. They don't provide those redistributive services you want... not because of revenue, but simply because they don't actually care to do them.

3- You have faith in a system that has done nothing to prove itself. - I understand its working exactly as designed to exfiltrate money from you for its own growth and profit.

We may agree on whats fundamentally broken - but our fixes are polar opposites. I don't need to insinuate you're liberal to make that determination.