Submitted by smefTV t3_yttsiy in newhampshire
I would consider myself to be moderately on the libertarian/liberal spectrum and was wondering how Hampshirites view the movement. I get that the Free State people are a bit obnoxious and extreme (I find them annoying too) but I was wondering how the overall movement is perceived.
I stopped associating myself with them last year after a similar awakening.
Again, from my experience that's mainly the extremists who took over the party IIRC last year. Most libertarians I know don't follow the MAGA stuff and are just against government mandates and overall big govt. I understand your perspective though.
I like how you asked for other people's perspective but then try and qualify the information obtained. And the last sentence is analogous to a "I'm not racist but . . . "
Typical libertarian.
'Most libertarians I know'
Are these New Hampshire libertarians or libertarians in other states?
Libertarians are a wholly-owned MAGA subsidiary.
It's like Tea Party v2.0
I would disagree.
If they genuinely believed in liberty, they wouldn't vote for authoritarians.
I don't think libertarians tend to vote for authoritarians
You wouldn't think so, but they're more Trumpy than not.
Again, why ask for people's perspective and then get on your white horse riding for nh libertarians? Bahaha
The best I have heard is "Libertarians are like domestic house cats. They have a smug, superior attitude, and spend their time looking down on the system on which they are dependent".
My thoughts are: A Libertarian waters his lawn in the middle of a drought because "I pay the water bill, and there is nothing in the constitution that says I can't".
Libertarianism is, by definition, self-serving.
For example - they're supposedly big individual liberty people.... so they don't want the government enroaching on those.
Only they don't accept or understand that corrupt people and communities also do this... and things like governmental protections for marginalized groups matter.
You can't be pro "individual liberty" if - at the end of the day - you believe in a world where, by stepping foot on the wrong block, my liberties can be erased by the populace and their corrupt institutions.
Yeah ok but you’re a “professional” Reddit commenter
I like how impotent you are responding to me.
Ad hominem and red herring.
Well your use of ad hominem is ironic, isn't it? Almost... professional.
Negatively.
Every self proclaimed Libertarian I've met ( all the in-laws, most neighbors) is actually just a Republican, and the neighbors are all just Maga, but they don't want to admit it. I view them much the same as I view Marjorie Taylor Greene.
They are the worst.
Libertarianism is a fucking joke for shallow thinkers.
These days there are too many "pedos deserve to be recognized as a legit sexuality" types in libertarianism for me to consider them legitimate anywhere. Libertarians of the OG, anti gov, anti tax type are long gone that I've seen.. now it's just about MAGA and anarchism - fuck the government types. Not for me in any universe.
Just to throw in a little support for this one, Ian Freeman, the host of a libertarian radio show, repeatedly called for lowering the age of consent to a disgustingly low age...
https://www.concordmonitor.com/Archive/2016/03/From-Archives-2/expelled-cm-032216
https://www.change.org/p/people-against-pedophile-defenders-get-ian-freeman-off-free-talk-live
How do his followers reconcile that?
Libertarianism is as un realistic communism. Both systems work “hypothetically” but in practice they are both highly flawed and only work in utopian fantasy.
Yeah except one wants people to leave others the f alone and the other is the absolute OPPOSITE.
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I see libertarians as nothing it free staters. A pox on this country.
Which are you? Liberal or libertarian? They are not even close on the ideology spectrum. In fact they are polar opposites.
I think you should read the Wikipedia article on liberalism.
I did.
How do you all ensure individual liberty - in the context of societies that limit it without governmen oversight, protections and regulation which , to be honest, as our own history shows - only partially address the problem?
Seems to me libertarianism refuses to accept (despite screaming about individuals) that individuals - and groups of them - are fully capable of limiting the rights and liberties of people without "government," using only their collective biases and agreed-upon-bigotry to do so?
The "rights" thatlibertarians believe are "natural" or "god given" or whatever... that's not the case at all. And they are, in fact, existant only due to the blessing and whim of our communities and neighbors.
Where liberterianism leaves people up to the wolves... codified protections do not.
You're going to find all kinds in a purple state.
One thing I'd suggest though is that if you make your entire identity/personality your political ideology, you're going to get under more folks skin.
This is literal GOLD.
Libertarians vary. Old school libertarians were hippies, no hate or even much activism. Just stoners with Objectivist economic leanings and a live and let live social outlook. These day it has become a catch all.
Think about the kind of person that would move to a whole new state over a fringe ideology. Leaving their friends and family behind. Probably not even having a job. All that's here for them is an annual convention of like-minded misfits -- an Internet forum come to life. They're not sending their best to New Hampshire, that's for sure. They're sending pedophiles, drug addicts, and the criminally insane. You drive through the main road in Grafton, and you'll see the makeshift shacks these degenerates build, with a "trespassers will be shot" sign out front.
They're perceived about as well as the busloads of vagrants that red states send to Los Angeles. They live in similar squalor. They're about as hostile. Only difference? We armed the homeless. In an ideological vacuum, I have to admit, that's kinda based, but here in reality, people have been murdered because of it.
I'll just leave you with this: where else have you heard this story, of a fringe ideology attracting misfits and isolating them? Do these kinds of things generally turn out well for those involved? To say the quiet part out loud: this is how cults operate. Now, I think there are a few benevolent cults out there, but the followers are usually abused, and they are occasionally convinced to commit heinous crimes. Kinda human nature for these things to go to hell in a hand basket. Especially for the women and children involved. Especially when selfishness is perceived as a virtue in your cult.
You mean like the early American colonists?
Not all Libertarians are part of the FSP, and the fact that's how you start your rant makes me realize you don't really know what you're mad about lol
People move across the U.S. a lot. I don't think it's insane to want to move to a place with likeminded people, many of whom share the same values as you do/
If they don’t live free, they will die.
Prepare for some calm, objective, and reasonable statement in this thread.
Libertarians lean too far into corporatism for my tastes.
Kind of going on with what she-hyzers was saying, republicans of nh were always more small-L libertarian than conservative I feel, a trend represented in how we largely have rejected the MAGA crowd as a whole
There is a reason the FSP chose NH, since the underlying attitude was always present in the state, they just take it to the cuckoo bar extreme
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You can ask here, but the NH Reddit sub isn't NH.
NH Libertarians are pretty based
She-hyzers-1234 t1_iw6r1b8 wrote
I think in theory, at one time libertarian represented what a lot of NH republicans believe in, limited government while being socially liberal. Basically everyone minded their own business.
Things have shifted though and they seem to be joining the religious right/MAGA crowd and I want nothing to do with it now. They really lost their damn minds during the height of covid and went off the deep end.