SatanicNotMessianic t1_j86ita4 wrote on February 12, 2023 at 12:27 AM

Reply to comment by becksrunrunrun in Family of Oakland baker seeks 'restorative justice' for her death following robbery by IAmNotARobot124

I’m saying that if one of the purposes of system of justice is to reduce the impact of unjust behaviors (or crime) on society, then should we take the path with the highest payoff? Just theoretically, if we were to hand a stack of books by Rawls and Sandel and Parfitt to a rapist, and we were able to know with perfect knowledge that the person became a pure altruist and would never harm again, would they have “gotten away with it” (assuming no punishment occurred)?

black641 t1_j87hj1k wrote on February 12, 2023 at 5:22 AM

Obviously we should take the path with the highest payoff, and I agree that not every criminal is worthy of “punishment” or is beyond saving. But we must ALSO contend with the very real fact that some people not only CAN’T change their antisocial behavior, but actively resist treatment. There is no functional form of treatment capable of making anybody a perfect altruist, and some people just need to be separated from society. While psychologists have begun to begin considering new methods of treating adult “sociopaths,” they also admit that it is incredibly difficult because their habits are deeply engrained, and that they fight against attempts to “fix” them.

I’m not saying these people need spend their lives naked and chained to a wall, but what makes people nervous about some of the rhetoric around restorative justice is that, many times, it’s proponents side step answering the question of what to do with people who can’t or don’t want to be fixed?

SatanicNotMessianic t1_j87vn6y wrote on February 12, 2023 at 8:08 AM

I do think that people who cannot be fixed (although I do think that’s a bit of a loaded word) should be removed from a context where they can do harm, and I’m including other people in correctional facilities in that.

That being said, I don’t think that prisons should be places of torture. American prisons are pretty bad, in large part because making them into places of suffering and violence feels right to people because the people subjected to those conditions deserve it due to their actions.

If teaching someone job skills while having them study ethics with Chidi in the evenings helps make someone less likely to reoffend, then I think that’s clearly the path we should take, because punishment for punishment’s sake isn’t ethical.

Unrealistic_actress t1_j88qaxw wrote on February 12, 2023 at 2:23 PM

I've been reading through some of these thoughts and you raise some interesting questions. I feel if we gave out say books on moral philosophy that based on this thought experiment could reform someone completely, then we should require it in schools. Or even required therapy. Or both. Why even wait for a crime happen? (Not sure if you've answered this in another reply.)

Sexual crimes are a touchy subject for me because it hits close to home. So forgive me if I disappear from this discussion.