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Omega_spartan t1_ja79o0q wrote

Don’t forget that trump rolled back safety regulations for hazardous material transportation on cargo trains.

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Free_Dimension1459 t1_ja7jkxl wrote

Don’t forget most congresspeople are little shits who value power first, ideals second.

I think this argument can be settled via quantification of the effects of both things and what they prevented. I’ll zoom into Norfolk Southern specifically.

#Effect of 2018 deregulation. Part of the context is that this deregulation was done to “save American jobs” as part of a deregulatory package that saved businesses $160 billion during his presidency. The jury is still out on layoffs, but thanks to the rail workers’ unions we do know numbers in that industry already. It’s somewhat clear though, this saved money but not jobs. It didn’t even lower prices for buyers. Richer rich, poorer poor. In my opinion this is both causal and revealing to a solution. -industry broadly adopted in 2019 Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR). This in turn caused the effects below

  • While having record profits, NS laid off 3,500 rail workers in 2019 and failed to upgrade its systems (20,000 rail workers laid off nationwide).
  • They went to 60 seconds per cart inspections on much longer train length (now up to 3 miles), making inspections more of a sham
  • brake systems were not required to be upgraded and worked sequentially on much longer trains
  • tracks were not evaluated for their ability to handle such train lengths
  • when Biden attempted to re-apply some regulations during his first year, rail had to keep operating but claimed they couldn’t hire qualified people (and are not broadly required, by government, to take on paid apprentices that they train on the job - some unions do require this, but it doesn’t help you hire 20,000 people)

#Effect of union busting Part of the context is how fed up the nation has been with covid supply chain issues. This is not an effect. From computer parts to toilet paper, it’s been 2 years of nonstop disruption to the transportation of goods. Whether or not congresspeople are industry shills, I know this fact brought chills down the spines of politicians, especially right before the Christmas holidays, when online shopping has grown exponentially. This, in my opinion, is both causal and revealing to a solution.

  • Safety standards were not increased for train systems, PSR was not limited nor banned, the ability to stop the presses on a negative inspection finding remains limited, because scheduling tolerances are so tight and profits > safety
  • reasonable standards of health and safety were not set for personnel nor train inspections. A healthy person can’t consistently do a demanding job (inspect an entire train cart’s systems in 60 seconds) - now throw in a fever or congestion and it’s absolutely ridiculous
  • disillusioned union workers. Biden’s a union guy he says. Even the union guy betrays the union.

#Effects of other government decisions or inaction We look to blame one side. One party. Blame is on

  • Vinyl Chloride should’ve been a properly classified hazmat decades ago. The fact it wasn’t in a car that more appropriately designed to handle flammable, toxic materials is the result of decades of EPA inaction and lobbying from two industries (not just rail!). We regulate after the bad thing happens even if academics have been sounding the alarm for decades. This is the case with vinyl chloride - every government since and including Reagan is complicit. Why aren’t the media asking or exposing “which other materials are being overlooked by the EPA?”
  • civil war era tech on trains are not a new thing. Lengthening trains past civil era capabilities and carrying materials that were dreamt of yet without requiring these systems be upgraded is the new thing. We’ve been transporting materials that were not conceived of in that era - from fossil fuels at scale to modern manufacturing chemicals, but somehow for, what, the entire post WWII era, nobody did anything about it. Relying on that era’s tech is foolhardy. This shows either or both the dangers of lobbying and the limits of governmental knowledge.
  • we allow self-policing of for profit companies. This was a disaster for Boeing and their customers not long ago, and for the financial industry broadly in 2007/8. Still, industry pushes for it and government keeps allowing it. Industry has a conflict of interest - even the Romans asked “qui custodiet ipsos custodes” (who watches the watchmen), so you can’t pretend it’s a new concept that this model will always fail.

#Possible solutions

  • regulate for safety and dismantle self inspection mechanisms.
  • Regulatory changes through executive action that can’t be reversed due to hiring constraints must require the hiring of paid apprentices. Industry can’t get a free pass on “oops, I went strong on the layoffs”
  • “this deregulation will create jobs” and leads to layoffs should get someone in trouble. Financial penalty, fraud charges, something. How is lying to the public broadly not a crime
  • unions need a voice in Congress as powerful as lobbies. They represent the interest of all Americans who are not rich. The people who live in towns like East Palestine and thousands of communities like it, the working class. The money of lobbies means this isn’t so today, but unions have the know-how.
  • it’s about darned time we regulate life and safety jobs broadly. Everyone deemed essential workers during the pandemic (yes, including all grocery staff, EMTs, and many more) deserve paid time off, health benefits, and pay that goes with how they keep the rest of us a life, come rain or come shine

Stop the “it’s Biden’s fault” and “it’s Trump’s fault” - I think I showed it’s both their fault, and Reagan’s, even Jimmy Carter and Nixon’s fault. My life and yours are not a sport for partisan politics and rabid fanaticism. We’re never going to fix this shit if we think all our problems started in the past 5 years.

  • we need an educated, engaged population that votes the shills out. Corporations should be able to make A profit, but people need to be able to make a living and breathe clean air in their homes too.
  • Unions have the know how of what’s actually good and safe at the ground level. Lobbies only know what’s good for the rich. Lobbies are the death of the working class, for profit.
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[deleted] t1_ja7w6yy wrote

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Free_Dimension1459 t1_ja8ph0l wrote

Politics and the exploitation of tribalism.

Dems say it’s the trump deregulation. GOPers say Biden signed off on the unions being forced to take the agreement. Both are true, both are a partial picture of a longer trend. Both parties knows their base will accept the talking points without looking into it or thinking deeply.

Tribalism is how the GOP campaigned on “look at the money coming to our district from the infrastructure bill” that not a single GOP legislator voted for. It’s how the GOP raised taxes on everyone but lowered them for the rich, but still have working class support. Because these tax increases only start hitting in 2023 (just in time for the 2024 presidential campaign), next year you’ll have republicans blaming Biden for the middle class tax hike.

Democrats like myself are not immune to this tribalism either, but it is different. While Trump could do no wrong with a certain crowd (until he tried to suggest people get vaccinated), I find most of democrats call BS on Biden all the time. But, almost no democrat can answer “name one thing Trump did that was good.” One good thing is he signed the First Step Act in 2018, which enacted some long overdue criminal justice reforms into law - wasn’t controversial, wasn’t shiny, doesn’t get the full job done, but he gets to take credit for it.

Anyhow. The point is, even if it’s a bipartisan problem all the discourse ignores the facts. People trust those “in” their tribe and mistrust the outsiders. Heck, we have a congressperson who remains uncensured for calling to dissolve the union a little over a week ago - that’s unheard of since the 1800s. The tribalism is too strong to even talk about that coherently across party lines.

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[deleted] t1_ja7akbd wrote

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MBThree t1_ja7cz87 wrote

But it’s not illegal for you and I to strike? Assuming you aren’t a rail worker.

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DannyBoy911 t1_ja7h9ha wrote

It only becomes illegal to strike once you threaten go on strike

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MBThree t1_ja8612w wrote

There are plenty of industry strikes around the county going on all the time. The vast majority are not made illegal.

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[deleted] t1_ja7d307 wrote

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Omega_spartan t1_ja7efhx wrote

I’m in Canada and not the US.

Here it is illegal for nurses to strike.

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MBThree t1_ja85wgq wrote

I’m in California, and a ton of our nurses threatened/planned on striking late last year. The threat of strike was enough to get them a new pay deal, and they didn’t have to actually end up striking: https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/kaiser-permanente-averts-strike-nurses-win-225-pay-hike-new-deal

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Omega_spartan t1_ja86oyn wrote

If we had that option here it would create a better quality of life in the healthcare sector. Instead the Ontario provincial government implemented a bill that capped wage raises to <1% in a time of a global pandemic. This caused a lot of nurses to quit and strained the healthcare even more.

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AzraelTB t1_ja7hgq1 wrote

Quitting en masse still legal?

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Omega_spartan t1_ja7lbhm wrote

Not illegal, however most nurses to some degree identify as altruistic and wouldn’t risk the health/safety of others.

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HappilyhiketheHump t1_ja951v1 wrote

Except that the head of the the NTSB is on record saying deregulation did not have an effect on this accident based on the train by type.

NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said…

“The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars," she tweeted. "This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes."

So, please check your politics and show some empathy for those Americans who are suffering.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ohio-train-derailment-ntsb-chair-issues-plea-to-those-spreading-misinformation/ar-AA17Ccxk

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