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tundey_1 t1_jckkvtz wrote

Reply to comment by SsurebreC in Pilot program begins for bulletproof shelter inside Alabama classroom by Picture-unrelated

>We do many things well (ex: national parks)

I suspect if you look into the history of those, you'll find horrors you never knew about. Do you think ALL those land were just there waiting for us to come along? Just there with absolutely nothing and nobody already there?

https://timeline.com/national-parks-native-americans-56b0dad62c9d

I think Americans tell ourselves that this is the greatest country in the world because it's the only way we can survive living in this hellscape. And if someone came along and said "guys, we can improve" or "guys, America did some horrible things in the past", we just can't listen. But to listen and admit they might be telling the truth is to force ourselves to take a real hard look at our country. And none of us is ready for that.

BTW, prior to just now I had never thought about the history of national parks. Then I was responding to your comment and decided to Google "national parks on Indian ground" and boy, was I not ready for the results.

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SsurebreC t1_jckpiyq wrote

I think it's common knowledge what happened to the Native Americans but if not then I'll say it again: land rights mean nothing if you can't militarily defend them and, as a result, almost all countries were founded and certainly expanded on bloodshed and taking land away from others. This includes taking land from the Native Americans (who also warred among each other for the same thing).

However, it doesn't take away from the national parks.

Lastly, if you want to nitpick everything where if one thing somehow invalides everything then you won't find anything positive about anything. You can't even admire jazz - an American-invented form of music - because someone will point out that it developed as a result of slavery.

The US has done plenty of horrible things - and I said that we're far from being the greatest country in the world - but if you want to put the US into context then you really should travel to other countries. I think it's fair to say that we're far better than many other countries.

What can you still enjoy if you nitpick everything about it with a negative slant. You can't even enjoy water, sugar, or sex.

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tundey_1 t1_jcks6pr wrote

>I think it's common knowledge what happened to the Native Americans

You'll think so but you'll be wrong.

> land rights mean nothing if you can't militarily defend them...almost all countries were founded and certainly expanded on bloodshed and taking land away from others.

Ha...you're one of those. It's OK we raped and killed the inhabitants of the land...we had military power and they didn't. Everybody did it.

>but if you want to put the US into context then you really should travel to other countries.

I was born and raised in another country and I've been to others.

>I think it's fair to say that we're far better than many other countries.

That, as they say in American sports, is loser talk. You don't compare yourself to worse countries, you compare and hold yourself to higher standards.

>Lastly, if you want to nitpick everything where if one thing somehow invalides everything then you won't find anything positive about anything. You can't even admire jazz - an American-invented form of music - because someone will point out that it developed as a result of slavery.

It's not about nitpicking, it's about being honest. You can enjoy jazz even while knowing its racist backstory. That's being an honest adult. You can admit that the United States is a great country with a lot of horrible shit in our history (old history and recent past).

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SsurebreC t1_jckwrzt wrote

> You'll think so but you'll be wrong.

Do you have any data showing that the average American has NO idea that Native American lands were taken?

> Ha...you're one of those. It's OK we raped and killed the inhabitants of the land...we had military power and they didn't. Everybody did it.

Show me where I said it's OK. I just said that this is what happens. Welcome to reality - it's shitty.

> I was born and raised in another country and I've been to others.

Same here. Maybe you should read some history then and you'll find a mountain of skulls that laid the foundations of almost every single country.

> You don't compare yourself to worse countries, you compare and hold yourself to higher standards.

I agree and I am. I'm tired of the "loser talk" where ignorant people believe that the US is the worst country or even a bad country. Those people need to visit other countries. We're not the greatest but we're not the worst by far.

> It's not about nitpicking, it's about being honest.

Where was I dishonest?

> You can admit that the United States is a great country with a lot of horrible shit in our history (old history and recent past).

That's my entire point. I'm glad we agree. Not sure why there's an argument then.

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