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[deleted] t1_jdlogrt wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Muslim population in Spain increased 10 times in last 30 years by madrid987

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[deleted] t1_jdlq7lu wrote

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Bit-Random t1_jdlu3by wrote

No, I mean today’s Muslim countries. You know, the more relevant comparison. If a country becomes more Muslim today, is it more likely to become like today’s muslim countries, or like those from centuries ago?

Can you point to any Arab-Muslim country today that’s diverse and tolerant to women, minorities, LGBT?

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gnark t1_jdlvpwm wrote

But today's Christian countries are also discriminatory against minorities, women and LGBTQ people.

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A_Song_of_Two_Humans t1_jdm2ijh wrote

That's really not a fair comparison. And I say that as an atheist. That's like saying the shit Uganda is pulling right now is 'a bit like' the UK where there are also some homophobic dickheads.

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hiles_adam t1_jdm5lwz wrote

Whilst I agree with you that their comparison is in bad faith I would also argue yours is too.

Most western countries these days are hardly theocratic like the Muslim led ones currently are.

That being said the Christian equivalent would be the Vatican City, but even then there are some massive differences such as the absolute monarch being elected and their position not inherited.

But I do agree that the things happening in supposed Christian states are not the same or equal as those happening in Muslim states.

Although I would be curious to see an alternate history to see if its simply the difference in religions causing this or because of the technological, democratic and educational revolutions that happened in Europe which has seen the decline in religious thought and power throughout the regions.

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Velkyn01 t1_jdmmcxd wrote

Women can have jobs and go to school in the US. There's no comparison.

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gnark t1_jdnvs2d wrote

They can in Morocco and Iran too. What's your point?

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Bit-Random t1_jdm4kfr wrote

No, no comparison at all.

First of all, we should differentiate between the state and individuals within the state. Spain doesn’t prosecute and oppress women, minorities and LGBT. They are all equal in the eyes of the law. Abortions are legal. I seem to recall Spain’s public healthcare even pays for the cost of gender reassignment surgery and/or hormonal treatment (I’m not sure of the details, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here).

Individuals? Spain has racists, homophobes and xenophobia, yes. This is mostly from the older generation. This exists in many other countries in Europe as well.

In comparison, many Muslim countries do prosecute and oppress women, minorities and LGBT. Many have different laws applying to those populations. Even in the Ottoman Empire, which the commenter above presents as diverse and tolerant, non-Muslims had to pay a special tax, for instance. And then of course, it goes all the way to the violent authoritarian end of the spectrum, where LGBT are locked up and killed, where women who have sex out of wedlock are ostracized and killed, and so on.

TLDR, all countries have racist and intolerant people, but “Christian” countries (if there’s even such a thing) don’t prosecute and oppress women, minorities and LGBT.

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gnark t1_jdm9bqm wrote

>TLDR, all countries have racist and intolerant people, but “Christian” countries (if there’s even such a thing) don’t prosecute and oppress women, minorities and LGBT.

Poland? Hungary? Russia? Uganda?

Are you trying to claim that LGBTQ people accepted by Christians?

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feverbug t1_jdqvfes wrote

A whole heck of a lot more than muslims, yes.

And even if it were true that Christians oppress lgbt as much as muslims do, then what the fuck is even your point? Does that make Islamic oppression of gays ok?

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art-man_2018 t1_jdlwoyo wrote

> Go ask a medieval Jew

Sorry, but the dream police confiscated my time machine for being double parked in Northern Ireland.

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TheMadTargaryen t1_jdlwt60 wrote

>It is true that during the period of Islamic rule in Cordoba, there was a great flourishing of learning, trade, and the arts. However, it is also important to note that the Islamic rulers of Cordoba were not known for their personal tolerance towards non-Muslims. While there were periods of relative peace and coexistence, the treatment of Jews and Christians under Islamic rule was not always ideal. For example, there were periodic outbreaks of violence against non-Muslims, and Jews and Christians were often subjected to discriminatory laws and heavy taxation. On one side are the Martyrs of Cordoba while on another is the Granada massacre of 1066. Also the Spanish Reconquista did not occur in a vacuum. The Christian rulers of Spain were motivated in part by a desire to reclaim their land and culture, which had been cruely subjugated by Islamic conquerors. it is true that the Jewish and Muslim populations were ultimately expelled or forced to convert, but it is important to note that these actions were not unique to Christian rulers. Muslim conquerors had also forcibly expelled or converted populations during their conquests.

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