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Morepastor t1_jdn9ryu wrote

Without a path to remove weapons from society (not saying this is the answer) we need to come together to figure out how we can make mental health more accessible. People who do these things are suffering from some sort of disorder and help should be easier to get than a gun.

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Sunstang t1_jdnelj4 wrote

There's really not a compelling link between mental illness in a clinical sense, and mass shootings.

What we have is a societal values problem. Societal illness rather than individual mental illness.

We have a society that values access to firearms over the public good, is increasingly tribalized and alienated from a meaningful sense of community, and a significant percent of the population seem to see violence as both an appropriate way to solve problems, and see people ideologically disparate from them as enemies and not deserving of the equal right to exist peaceably.

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SanityIsOptional t1_jdnj8yk wrote

We have a hopelessness problem, people who hate society and want to commit suicide in the most hurtful and sensational manner possible.

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N8CCRG t1_jdnq1sd wrote

And they can often get efficient tools to accomplish that without much difficulty.

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Sunstang t1_jdoh1l6 wrote

Don't know why this is being downvoted. It's not incorrect.

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Charlestwne t1_jdnosvd wrote

Thank you for this. I am so tired of people perpetuating that myth.

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pebkacerrorspersist t1_jdnmaj9 wrote

But when I bring up the fact that so much focus has been put on Girls succeeding and excelling in all areas, and are now WAY beyond the boys in the US in every measurable metrics and that our boys are being left behind and deprioritized, and that is having a SERIOUSLY detrimental effect on our boys mental health and potential future outcomes - I'm called a misogynist.

It's a conversation we're not allowed to have and until we acknowledge that and we correct the lurch and start focusing on building up young men again...this is the world we have.

EDIT: The Downvote brigade has arrived. Until we start raising our boys up to the level of our girls in importance, focus, and funding - You will get more disillusioned, lost, mentally ill YOUNG ADULT MALE shooters. As the problems get worse, the catastrophe that follows will scale up as well, both in frequency and in volume.

I have a daughter, no sons. I realize this is a hard conversation, and goes against every piece of societal programming that has been indoctrinated in you - but rip the band-aid off.

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actvdecay t1_jdnpqnb wrote

There is a men’s crisis going on. Men must unite and help each other. In positive and constructive ways. It is their moment to define a new manhood in this society

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antiproton t1_jdq8ilu wrote

> But when I bring up the fact that so much focus has been put on Girls succeeding and excelling in all areas, and are now WAY beyond the boys in the US in every measurable metrics and that our boys are being left behind and deprioritized, and that is having a SERIOUSLY detrimental effect on our boys mental health and potential future outcomes - I'm called a misogynist.

Prove. It.

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Glait t1_jdnj4vi wrote

Science Vs did a great podcast episode on mass shootings . I don't know how much access to mental health resources and suicide prevention would help but it's one of those things were there is no downside to expanding access to mental healthcare. They talked to a researcher who studies mass shooters and when it came to the question of mental illness and they found

"roughly one in ten of these shooters is doing it because they’re psychotic. Other research finds similar numbers – sometimes a little higher. Generally speaking, though, the majority of shooters are doing it for some other reason besides psychosis.

The mental health issue that really stands out here is this: About 70% of the shooters were suicidal. In fact, the probability that a mass shooter dies by suicide after the crime is much higher than for other kinds of murderers."

When Jillian looked closely at the period leading up to these men’s crimes, she realized they had often reached some kind of crisis point.

Usually it was because they just had their wife leave them, or they just lost their job, or something dramatic happened in their family, or at school – where it was kind of the final thing that pushed them over the edge.

So these are… they’re angry suicides. What we see in these perpetrators, and there’s one sister of a perpetrator who put this particularly well for me, she said: My brother, he was saying, it was all about ‘What's wrong with me, what’s wrong with me? Why don't I fit in? Why don’t I have the things in life that I thought I would have? What is it about me?’

And then she said there was a switch. And it became not ‘What's wrong with me,’ but ‘What's wrong with everybody else, and whose fault is it? Who made this happen to me?’

And so in some cases it's women, or it’s a religious group, or it’s a racial group. They kind of choose a target that represents their grievance with the world–who is it that they blame."

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MeltBanana t1_jdo28gq wrote

And that is starting to touch on the underlying question to all of this, which is what is causing people to feel so unsatisfied and unfulfilled in the first place? Is it situation specific, such as domestic abuse and bullying, or is it a more general societal problem?

Personally I think it's the latter, and it's a massive beast of nuanced issues we don't have answers for or understand yet. It's everything from the hopelessness young people feel when looking at their career prospects in our current capitalism-fueled wealth divide, it's the modern media cycle constantly dividing us with fear, hate, and bias, it's social media warping our reality and pushing people down rabbit holes, it's the reality of being an average looking male with average intelligence and no support system settling into a life of an unfulfilling meaningless job at Walmart with low pay so he can afford a shitty overpriced apartment where he spends his free time smoking weed, playing video games, and browsing internet forums. It's only a matter of time before he has a crisis. That crisis might be getting the motivation to do something different, hitting the gym, going back to school, etc. Or it might be falling into the rabbit hole of the internet, warping his reality to blame someone else, and ultimately acting out his frustrations with the world through violence.

You take that same young man, put him in a cabin in the woods 600 years ago with an average wife, fill his days with gardening, chopping wood, raising chickens, and children, and I bet his chances of having some crisis and becoming a mass murderer drop to almost 0. There are major problems with our modern world that humans struggle to understand and aren't designed to handle. We are animals, our brains need positive feedback in the form of tangible reward from our own labors, and that is increasingly being removed from society.

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N8CCRG t1_jdnbrgp wrote

Getting access to mental healthcare is only a piece of it though. Recognizing that somebody needs to get that mental healthcare is possibly even more difficult. Rarely do I ever hear about any of these shooters having histories of attempting to get mental healthcare but being unable to.

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Morepastor t1_jdnde08 wrote

Some have certainly displayed behaviors that even attract law enforcement attention. Access and making mental health less of a stigma. We need solutions that can pass. Biden addressed this recently when he said “we need more police & more funding for them” he was speaking about mental health officers to assist with these calls.

I agree it’s a multifaceted problem.

Addressing the root causes of violence: Many mass shooters have a history of domestic violence, bullying, or other forms of aggression. Addressing these underlying issues through education, counseling, and intervention programs could help prevent future acts of violence.

Improving mental health care: While not all mass shooters have a diagnosed mental illness, some do. Improving access to mental health care and reducing the stigma surrounding mental illness could help identify and treat potential perpetrators before they turn to violence.

Encouraging responsible reporting: Some mass shootings are motivated by a desire for attention or notoriety. Responsible reporting by the media, including avoiding sensationalism and not naming shooters, could help reduce the incentive for these types of attacks.

Enhancing school security: Many mass shootings take place in schools, so improving security measures such as metal detectors, security cameras, and school resource officers could help prevent these tragedies.

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[deleted] t1_jdne0ta wrote

If someones identity is 100% one thing (guns, trump, god, etc) that should be a pretty clear indicator.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_jdnhic0 wrote

I think no matter what happens, giving everyone access to mental health care facilities and treatments is just a beneficial thing for everyone. It's sorta like providing regular healthcare. Generally if you bar someone from initial treatment, it's much more expensive and time consuming for everyone when it's an emergency. It's also much harder to come back from such an emergency, whereas earlier treatment could put someone in a position where they'd at least be able to assist with some payments, or support themselves.

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MeatsimPD t1_jdpvtt9 wrote

> Without a path to remove weapons from society (not saying this is the answer) we need to come together to figure out how we can make mental health more accessible

Violence and crime are not mental health issues, you don't need to have a mental health problem to decide to commit a crime or to impulsively commit a crime.

Why people commit crimes is a complicated and multifaceted issue, as is how we define what actions are crimes, but don't fall for the right-wing that it's just "mental health." When they say "mental health" what they mean is "some people are just crazy and you can't do anything about it" which is untrue and a distraction from solving real problems

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Waste-Worth-1047 t1_jdpr8xq wrote

You think that "mental health accessibility" is going to stop a shooting like this? It's some guy with an attitude that carries that decided "he wasn't going to be disrespected" or some shit like that so he shot someone in the head. Just some clown with a chip on his shoulder who's going to spend the next 20+ years in jail.

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Petersaber t1_jdq4338 wrote

Most mass shootings don't have a connection to mental health, though. Being radicalized isn't a mental illness (massacres), and neither is being a criminal (gang shootings).

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dazed_and_bamboozled t1_jdq0a3d wrote

The most urgent mental health issue facing the US at the moment is arguably the mass delusion that a country awash with military grade, hand-held shooting machines is a safer country and that the problem of mass shootings can somehow be solved without drastically reducing the number of shooting machines. Do you know what phrase we use in the UK for ‘active shooter’? We don’t have one.

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pebkacerrorspersist t1_jdnlr23 wrote

> remov(ing) weapons from society

wellthereitis.jpg

Since that will never, ever happen - here we are. This is the world Gun Owners have created. And we all sat idly by and watched it happen. It's too late now.

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Dolthra t1_jdnomwh wrote

In fairness, most of us didn't. This is a decades old effort, and blaming us for failing when most people on reddit weren't even alive when it started, even if they're in their 30s, is not productive.

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pebkacerrorspersist t1_jdnspv2 wrote

I'm as guilty as you are. We're all equally to blame for where we are today. Until we reach that realization, we're toast.

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Woodrovski t1_jdnm1gw wrote

Get rid of many guns will solve the problem a lot...other countries have mental health issues and it rarely happens

Getting downvoted just shows the American way. Absolutely crazy

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yeahipostedthat t1_jdnsu52 wrote

There were DUI arrests last night as well, get rid of alcohol and we won't have that problem either.

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ButtMilkyCereal t1_jdo08am wrote

You can't make a gun out of a gallon jug and a balloon.

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yeahipostedthat t1_jdo2hqt wrote

3d printers

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ButtMilkyCereal t1_jdoo4eb wrote

Are way more complicated and finicky than you give them credit for, and one capable of building a gun that won't blow up in your hand is way more expensive than a couple hundred dollars. Honestly, this argument is better if you talk about Craigslist machining tools, could probably get what you need for a gun for less than a thousand. But you were being disingenuous and stupid, which is par for the course.

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Ansiremhunter t1_jdop0fn wrote

He could of gone the route of steel pipe, endcap, nail, glue, and shotgun shell, single shot and do not require any tools.

Probably the cheapest homebrew gun and would only cost probably 5 bucks

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yeahipostedthat t1_jdp8rtf wrote

I'm not being disingenuous. There are far more DUIs committed than shootings. Your average run of the mill normal citizen is far more likely to have a few drinks and make the dangerous choice to drive drunk. Sure not everyone, but everyone is also not killing other people.....but safety first.....we must make our laws in order to ensure the lowest among us don't have the opportunity to commit crimes. I'm coming for your weed next.

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Woodrovski t1_jdnthqg wrote

Cause alcohol was designed to kill things...right...

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CassandraAnderson t1_jdo130c wrote

Technically you aren't wrong. Alcohol's ability to kill things is one of the things that gives it Medical value.

Alcohol: killing things professionally since 1363

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yeahipostedthat t1_jdnu2m7 wrote

Whether it was designed to or not, it still does. I'd like to see it outlawed.

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