DJ_Slex t1_iujhfcf wrote
Wonder what those “Spanish Bullets” did to the people of this city
Puzzleheaded-Ad-2746 t1_iujhty7 wrote
You don’t really have to wonder mate.
DJ_Slex t1_iujhyhu wrote
Oh I know, it’s kinda sad the article didn’t seem to care to mention why those bullets were there.
This is an archeological site of a genocide. I hope they’re respecting it as such
juliohernanz t1_iujkal9 wrote
At least it's clear that Mayas weren't exterminated like other natives further north. There are around five million today.
MGD109 t1_iujq4c0 wrote
Just to be clear is this really genocide? I mean the Spanish were ruthless conquers, but they weren't trying to kill the Mayan's they wanted to conquer and enslave them.
Did they really kill all Mayan's in Guatemala?
Capt_morgan72 t1_iujvz8f wrote
So. Genocide dosent have to be a 100% annihilation of a race, ethnicity, religious, or national group. And it dosent have to only be done by killing.
While they can be and we do have examples of complete and total genocide like the Taíno people of the Caribbean or the Jōmon people of japan.
Another very common form of genocide can come from culturally killing a people. Like what happened in the USA and Canada. And is also happening right now in Ukraine. This is accomplished by kidnapping and indoctrination of a groups young people until they no longer remember or At least no longer practice the culture of their ancestors.
And I’d argue that the Mayan way of life no longer exist. Making this not only genocide. But a successful one.
MGD109 t1_iujwtku wrote
Ah you mean cultural erasure, that sort of genocide. Yeah that's understandable, its certainly true the Spanish destroyed the native culture (or at least most of it, parts were adopted and continued but it was no longer dominant).
I understand genocide doesn't have to be 100% annihilation, but it does generally have to have the intent. Simply conquering and killing a lot of people doesn't meet the criteria of genocide.
>This is accomplished by kidnapping and indoctrination of a groups young people until they no longer remember or At least no longer practice the culture of their ancestors.
That's very true. But did the Spanish ever actually do that? They had forcible conversions certainly, and they had a lot of people who switched to get on with the new boss. But did they ever flat out take people's children to indoctrinate them into being raised to be Spanish?
Not saying they didn't you understand, but I've just never heard that bit of the colonisation.
>And I’d argue that the Mayan way of life no longer exist. Making this not only genocide. But a successful one.
I suppose that depends on how you define the "way of life", I mean on a day to day level the life of most Mayan people didn't change that much they just had to shift religions and had a new bunch who they had to pay taxes to.
Their are still over 9 million Mayan people living through Central America.
[deleted] t1_iuk0uce wrote
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MGD109 t1_iuk1uon wrote
>but I wonder if there were any guidelines the crown had given to Columbus and his men following first contact?
Well in the West Indies were he was made governor Columbus originally planned to sell the native's as slaves after discovering island wasn't as rich in gold as he hoped it would be. However, the monarch's of Spain decided that the natives were now their citizens and forbade it.
He then more or less ignored them, and carried on acting like a tyrant to the natives and the colonists, until he was forcibly dragged back to Spain and stripped of all his titles.
Really it probably wouldn't have mattered what they told him, it took a very long time for information to get to anyone with the authority to outrank him on those voyages, and most of the information sent back came from him.
[deleted] t1_iuk2jc1 wrote
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MGD109 t1_iuk39rw wrote
Ah right with you sorry.
Well at the time, I'm pretty sure the Spanish throne did have several strong trade routes with kingdoms as far as Central Africa and Greece, so yeah I imagine they're were some thoughts given to diplomacy with far off distant cultures.
I think the issue was in part they also already expected the powers to recognise their power, and didn't consider encountering a new world that had absolutely no idea they even existed.
[deleted] t1_iuk3pkc wrote
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MGD109 t1_iuk49kd wrote
>I do know they had to practice a fair deal of diplomacy there because they weren’t able to go into the interior w/o dying of disease.
Oh it goes back before the colonisation. Spain's history has been connected to the African Kingdom's back to Carthage. For a long period the Moors ruled Spain. When the Spanish took it back, they kept a large number of their trade routes running.
> I’m guessing one of the first things they did to the Natives was turn them into Christians.
Well somewhat. A lot of the conquistadors were honestly just in it for the money. A lot of natives did convert to the new religion, some by force, some by choice, some just to curry favour.
They likewise were careful to preserve elements of the priest hierarchy in areas they conquered, so they would convert the populace more easily. And expanded a large number of missionaries.
But those mostly came later, at the start a lot of it was just conquest and plunder.
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