Submitted by twotwo_twentytwo t3_z2rhfo in news
D_Alex t1_ixlv8ad wrote
Reply to comment by drawkbox in European Parliament declares Russia a state sponsor of terrorism by twotwo_twentytwo
>Why are you spreading Kremlin propaganda?
In this case, you are spreading bullshit, and when I call you out on it you double down on your bullshit.
drawkbox t1_ixlx372 wrote
Just like in Ukraine today, or Afghanistan in the past, Iran had a choice in 1953, ask for help and side with the West or be taken by the East. That is why Kremlin page one is division/balkanization/separatism/civil war/secession because they like to leverage smaller states and it is helpful to them to have division to shroud in those fronts.
Kremlin starts with false opposition and run active measures via agents of influence to move the Overton Window towards chaos if they don't control a place, or absolute control if they do. It is why all states around Russia are autocratic, including China who they setup in the 1940s by helping the PRC push out the ROC after the ROC was weak from winning against the Japanese Empire. Soviets put Mao in power and pushed the Long March. Just like they did in Iran in the Iranian Revolution and the Syrian Islamic Revolution.
So you think, against all intel agencies in the world, that Iran isn't a client state or leveraged by Russia since 1979? Same with Syria, Afghanistan, etc for a while.
Same with North Korea, China, Myanmar, etc in Asia. Same with Cuba, El Salvador, Guatemala, Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina in the Americas.
They tried in Iraq, they recently made inroads in Saudi Arabia with MBS due to Trump admin.
They aren't allies, they helped put autocrats or authoritarians in power and they have the places leveraged and have for decades.
The point is, look at history just before the event the Kremlin propagandists push on social media, you'll find... Kremlins.
D_Alex t1_ixlxl4v wrote
And now you are just making stuff up.
>Iran had a choice in 1953
Yeah, and they made the WRONG CHOICE, right? Well, democracies do that sometimes, (see Trump, Brexit). Fortunately the CIA fixed everything.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
drawkbox t1_ixlz5yl wrote
You really need to start looking at historical events in the timeline, rather than being fed propaganda you run with.
The US wasn't really even a superpower until 1945, the Iran coup in 1953 was largely a falling out between Britain/Russia after they invaded in 1941 to overthrow the Mohammad Reza Pahlavi Shah's father Reza Shah.
Remember, Russia put Reza Shah in power in the early 1900s after another engineered revolution in 1905-1911. They were just replacing the Reza Pahlavi Shah another decade+ later. It was inevitable that Russia would take Iran, instead they sided with the West smartly. Until they were messed with by Soviet/Kremlin propaganda and cult of personality building towards their autocratic state they are in now since 1979, due to Russia... The Great Game (monarch/tsardom teaming up to take territory -- Russian Empire + British Empire) is still going on to the Kremlin.
Due to Russia, Iran is a series of revolutions that happen when the leader turns against the Kremlin.
Iran in 1953 had a choice, side with Britain/West/US or Russia, it really was that simple, the Great Game was still in play by Britain and Russia.
> The Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran or Anglo-Soviet invasion of Persia was the joint invasion of the neutral Imperial State of Iran by the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union in August 1941. The invasion, code name Operation Countenance, was largely unopposed by the numerically and technologically outmatched Iranian forces. The multi-pronged coordinated invasion took place along Iran's borders with the Kingdom of Iraq, Azerbaijan SSR, and Turkmen SSR, with fighting beginning on 25 August and ending on 31 August when the Iranian government formally agreed to surrender, having already agreed to a ceasefire on 30 August.
> The invasion took place two months after the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union's subsequent alliance with the United Kingdom. The attack also took place less than two months after Allied victories over pro-Axis forces in neighbouring Iraq and French Syria and Lebanon.
> The invasion's strategic purpose was to ensure the safety of Allied supply lines to the USSR (see the Persian Corridor), secure Iranian oil fields, limit German influence in Iran (Reza Shah was considered friendly to Nazi Germany) and preempt a possible Axis advance from Turkey through Iran toward the Baku oil fields or British India. Following the invasion, on 16 September 1941 Reza Shah abdicated and was forced into exile by the invading British. He was replaced by his young son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.
D_Alex t1_ixm24vs wrote
>fed propaganda
TIL Wikipedia and NPR are "propaganda".
>Iran in 1953 had a choice
I think we already covered that.
Why are you apologizing for the evil shit that the US did in Iran?
drawkbox t1_ixm4c2p wrote
You are silly thinking that the US was to blame for remnants of the Great Game. We just wanted to not allow another WW after WWII and Russia was pushing it in Iran.
CIA wasn't created until 1947, as a reaction to the Soviet intel threats, the Kremlin has always been ahead on intel and active measures/agents of influence and infiltration ops and fronts. Your opinion of the CIA was even propagandized by them.
Russia’s Top Five Persistent Disinformation Narratives
Russia has been pulling this bullshit since tsardom. Tsarists running fronts is a constant theme well before the Western world, see Operation Trust, any active measures, or the Checka or the Okhrana. Remember, Russia is only a century out of tsardom and ran fronts for all of their history, into Soviet era and especially today with neo-tsarist wannabe imperialist Putin.
To even compare Western liberalized democratic republics with open markets and elections to Eastern authoritarian one party mafia states with closed markets and pressurized people shows how propagandized you truly are.
> In the first month and half after the October Revolution (1917), the duty of "extinguishing the resistance of exploiters" was assigned to the Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee (or PVRK). It represented a temporary body working under directives of the Council of People's Commissars (Sovnarkom) and Central Committee of RDSRP(b). The VRK created new bodies of government,[clarification needed] organized food delivery to cities and the Army, requisitioned products from bourgeoisie, and sent its emissaries and agitators into provinces. One of its most important functions was the security of revolutionary order, and the fight against counterrevolutionary activity (see: Anti-Soviet agitation)
Russia is fronts all the way down, that is what they START with.
The US wasn't even a superpower until AFTER WWII, and when we realized the Soviet (i.e. modern monoarchist/tsardom/mafia state threat) is when the CIA was made. Russia rebranded the GPU/Checka into the KGB, and have since re-branded into the FSB/GRU/SVR. SVR and GRU always existed in one form or another. Russia basically invented covert intel operations, CIA was a response. Sorry if that doesn't fit your social media pushed pavlovian propaganda, learn some actual history.
The Kremlin, which has been around since tsardom, has been running mafia state style games around the world under various brands and fronts using agents of influence and active measures, you saw that with Brexit, Trump and Ukraine and many more. You should be thankful for the CIA if Western (doubt) because they prevented the Soviets from owning even you. To this day it is clear you don't understand Kremlin goals or influence in your own country.
Putin rates your cartoon opinion of the CIA and your "doesn't look like anything to me" about the Kremlin past and present a 9/11. Putin rates 9/11 an 11/9.
Look at the lies and active measures of just one Kremlin defector that are known as well as known active measures across the Western world directly.
Don't you want Iranians to be free and open? Kremlin is stopping that. US/West wants to open it up and have the nuclear deal back and bring them into the market. Iranians/Persians are amazingly talented, they have been under autocratic rule due to their leaders taking the Russian deal, everyone that takes that learns it is a leverage play.
Why are you apologizing for the evil shit that the Kremlin did, does and is currently doing, in Iran?
D_Alex t1_ixmd4ix wrote
>You are silly thinking that the US was to blame for remnants of the Great Game. We just wanted to not allow another WW after WWII and Russia was pushing it in Iran.
You are making shit up. Are you Republican?
>To even compare Western liberalized democratic republics with open markets and elections to Eastern authoritarian one party mafia states with closed markets and pressurized people shows how propagandized you truly are.
>Putin rates your cartoon opinion of the CIA and your "doesn't look like anything to me" about the Kremlin past and present a 9/11. Putin rates 9/11 an 11/9.
Is this copypasta from your CIA bullshit handbook?
>you don't understand Kremlin goals or influence in your own country.
Tell me, fool, what do you think is my country?
drawkbox t1_ixmel07 wrote
Do you like to ask questions?
Are you a Trump Truther pushing Kremlin propaganda against the West?
Your country doesn't matter much, you have a very Eastern authoritarian mindset when you are pushing for Kremlin interests and angles and not even knowing it, like the people in Belarus that still blame Churchill for their troubles not Stalin or Putin now.
If you live in the West with this big of an Eastern take on things, well just feel lucky the system makes it ok to be that naive.
D_Alex t1_ixmfzav wrote
>Do you like to ask questions?
Yes, it is a hobby of mine. Pity you don't like answering them.
> you are pushing for Kremlin interests and angles and not even knowing it
I don't really care whose interests are served by facts. Fact is, the US f**ked up a nascent Iranian democracy in 1953.
drawkbox t1_ixmhz6c wrote
You mean Iran was setup by Russia, then coup'd many times by Russian and Britain when they wanted freedoms. Russia put an end to that with the theocratic autocracy they created to end the Western influence.
Iran was not a democracy, it was a monarchy (setup by Russia/Britain) and then a theocratic autocracy Islamic Republic after 1979.
The only time they had anything that opened up or was Western was 1953-1979, until Russia got them back in the Iron Curtain.
Same with Afghanistan, only time it was at least headed in the right direction was after the Soviets were defeated and the US was able to at least let women get educated, until Russia shut that down with their fronts.
You just love that Kremlin propaganda. I can't believe this one still works on you unless you are just steeped in Eastern ideology or propaganda.
It is unfortunate when people like you fall for propaganda like this, shows how propagandized Iranians are as well. When it does open up, you'll be surprised how far the Kremlin went to keep it locked down. The stories will come out, just like when the USSR fell, when East Germany was returned to Germany (where Putin learned most of his agent of influence drive active measure divisive techniques in the KGB/Stasi) and so will Iran.
D_Alex t1_ixmpe0l wrote
No, I mean exactly what I said. The US f**ked up Iran’s nascent democracy. US were the baddies. That’s just facts. Confirmed by the CIA, actually.
drawkbox t1_ixmqfh4 wrote
So you admit you wanted a Soviet Iran and no Western influence in Iran at all. Very Eastern of you.
And is the CIA in the room with you right now?
So you think Russia and Britain had nothing to do with Iran?
Was the Kremlin just at their babushkas eating creme and pink sausage during all this, good little sukas?
US helped because it was after WWII and they wanted to remove autocracies and protect against Soviets taking countries and turning them into that. It was the better of two bad choices. Around 1950 they realized Soviets true intentions, same as Russian Empire, world domination and they stop at nothing unless you stop them.
Only the Kremlin and you blame the US for that solely.
"Thank you for your service to Mother Russia D_Alex" -- Putin
D_Alex t1_ixmrbai wrote
Britain was in cahoots with the US and helped to orchestrate the 1953 coup that overthrew a democratically elected Iranian government. You should read the Wikipedia article, where the reasons behind the coup are quite clearly explained.
Actually... I’m starting to think that you are a silly troll.
drawkbox t1_ixmu4he wrote
Uh oh, they were in cahoots! /s
I wonder who Russia was in cahoots with at the time? Oh, they are invisible to you, just like you have been Pavlovian programmed.
You should read about history all around the event. The ones that you hear about will be pushed to you but taken out of the timeline of history will not be fully clear. That is the goal of those that misinform...
You do know there were three coups in Iran in the 1900s? Russia did two and Britain/US did the other. Are those not important to you?
Why do you hate Persians and Iran having freedom and moving Western?
Do you prefer the theocratic autocracy that the Kremlin setup after their last coup?
Do you prefer Eastern style closed authoritarianism to Western style open systems?
D_Alex t1_ixofh9q wrote
>You should read about history all around the event.
You keep telling me what to do, but from your walls of text it is very clear that you don't have much of an idea of historical facts.
>...will not be fully clear. That is the goal of those that misinform...
Sums up your writings.
>You do know there were three coups in Iran in the 1900s? Russia did two and Britain/US did the other. Are those not important to you?
No, not in the context of this conversation.
>Why do you hate Persians and Iran having freedom
Why do you keep saying stupid stuff?
>Do you prefer Eastern style closed authoritarianism to Western style open systems?
Not sure what you actually mean, but it is just stupid to claim that Iran was "Western style open" after the US led coup against a democratically elected Iranian government.
drawkbox t1_ixothqd wrote
You have already proven you prefer the Eastern authoritarian one party mafia state with closed markets and no freedoms over the Western liberalized democratic republics with open markets and personal freedoms.
Why do you want Iranians to stay leveraged to the Kremlin and in autocracy? That was the choice, you prefer the Kremlin based on how you attack the West's efforts to open Iran.
Why does the Kremlin not want Iran to make a trade deal and nuclear deal with the West? Think about that hard now...
You haven't even mentioned Russia, who has messed with Iran the most, even today, yet you ignore. Why don't you stop fronting? Kremlin loves you dude, stay misinformed, naive and hopefully biased.
Do you want Iran to be part of the global community or just owned by the Kremlin? Right now you are choosing the latter.
Here's the real test: If you had to choose between being allied/owned by Russia or allied with the West, which would you choose?
D_Alex t1_ixp5zh9 wrote
>the West's efforts to open Iran
Including:
- Overthrow of a democratically elected government
- [Military support of an aggressor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
- Destroying oil platforms
- Shooting down a civilian jetliner
- Sanctions and embargoes
>Why does the Kremlin not want Iran to make a trade deal and nuclear deal with the West?
>Here's the real test: If you had to choose between being allied/owned by Russia or allied with the West, which would you choose?
I choose "being allied with Russia". Now - are you going to respect my choice, or send in the CIA to destabilise my country?
drawkbox t1_ixp9iz3 wrote
At least you admit you are pro-Russia.
The thing is, Russia setup the Shahdom, it was really still a monarchy they also setup the "elections" which were meant to make the Soviets look like good stewards. Same front Putin tried when he took over in 2000, it was immediately apparent that was not sincere. The thing is, Russia has "elections" not elections. They make a mockery of the system and manipulate, pump leveraged candidates and do not allow true opposition. The same type of "democracy" they put in Russia is what they do in their places they try to front and act like it is valid, it isn't. Mosaddegh was a Soviet puppet meant to take Iran to the same place that Soviets took them in 1979, hardline theocratic state, they were already doing this in Syria and Soviet Republics like Chechnya.
The Iran/Iraq war and South America was another round of Kremlin trying to create divisions/separatism/balkanization/civil wars/chaos to put their leveraged puppets in power using active measures and agents of influence in the countries, overstepping their sovereignty without their approval in most cases, just like Iran. They put in people, then get mad and want to remove them, over and over. The people that will be autocrats and give their bratvas what they need they keep them in power forever (Syria (Assad and his father), North Korea (Kims), etc).
Myanmar and Sri Lanka today are what the Kremlin does to places before rebuilding, they coup using the military or break the economic system as a start. They have done this to Argentina many, many, many times. Venezuela as well. Taking the Russian "deal" is a leverage play and only the biggest sukas in history fall for it. Xi being one of the biggest dunces in this regard. MBS as well. Good luck to them.
Since Russia and the Kremlin have a tsarist/mafia state style and are authoritarian/autocratic with fixed markets, no one in the West is down with that and many people under those systems aren't with it either. If you like that, you do you.
US wasn't even a superpower until 1945, didn't have intel until 1947. Meanwhile Russia has had intel since 1800s, and was running the Great Game and prior conquests/imperialism for centuries. It is hilarious when they blame the CIA, it is almost cartoon level absurd.
We can agree to disagree.
D_Alex t1_ixpa996 wrote
Sure, we can agree to disagree. But honestly, you seem to be poorly informed and quite biased on the matter of US meddling in the affairs of other countries.
drawkbox t1_ixpadfv wrote
Sure, we can agree to disagree. But honestly, you seem to be poorly informed and quite biased on the matter of Kremlin meddling in the affairs of other countries.
I'd prefer the Kremlin leave Iran alone and let them get the nuclear deal and into the world markets. The people of Iran deserve a break and to stop being used as a Kremlin front to attack the world like all the other Kremlin client states.
D_Alex t1_ixpbjte wrote
>prefer the Kremlin leave Iran alone and let them get the nuclear deal and into the world markets.
Man... you really are poorly informed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_the_Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action
drawkbox t1_ixpg0yy wrote
Trump was a Kremlin puppet, you can't be this dense.
Obama got the deal, Biden is working on getting it back.
Kremlin NEEDS to have no nuclear deal and the world to keep blocking Iran from the market, it is how they own their client states like Iran, Cuba, Venezuela and more. Same technique from the Iron Curtain days.
[deleted] t1_ixpy8yl wrote
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