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squidking78 t1_j55x9fv wrote

Why is this even news? The people of Afghanistan chose their leaders & not to be part of a modern world, by just giving up and throwing away decades of assistance & trillions in investment in their military.

They are the new stereotype in cowardice for running away, instead of the French. They lasted 2 weeks, with all the modern weaponry the US could afford…

If you want to be a nation, you have to fight for it. They preferred this.

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RKU69 t1_j5617sn wrote

What a ridiculous statement. "The people of Afghanistan" have not had a legitimate way to chose their leaders in decades and decades. Its been constant war and intervention by global superpowers. The US-backed "government" that collapsed in 2019 was a taped-together shitshow of corrupt aristocrats, drug traffickers, and war criminals that ordinary people never had much of a say in. No surprise it collapsed almost immediately. And no fault of the Afghan people - what were they supposed to do? If they tried to reform or resist gov't corruption, they'd be labelled as Taliban and shot. No choice except to keep your head down and try to stay as far away from politics as possible.

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squidking78 t1_j5621cb wrote

They’re pretty good at deciding who they don’t want, historically.

They all ran away when the Taliban came calling, giving them the country.

People who want a country, fight for it. Afghanistan isn’t a country though, it’s a bunch of tribesmen with clan loyalties above any idea of a “nation”.

I’m sure the people of Afghanistan were being “oppressed” by evil America, with all that money spent, the womens rights they tried to instill. Foolish but can’t blame them for trying.

No one has time for a people who chose their fate after all the international community did to help them.

You see them only as victims.

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MeatsimPD t1_j567pu5 wrote

> I’m sure the people of Afghanistan were being “oppressed” by evil America, with all that money spent, the womens rights they tried to instill.

Most Afghans never saw a penny of any American money. There's no denying the US tries to do good things and accomplished a lot especially for women's rights, but the government we backed with violence wasn't legitimate to Afghans because it was corrupt and self serving. It's no surprise they didn't fight and die for it

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squidking78 t1_j56ajcv wrote

Guess why they “never saw a penny” then… tribal leadership.

You seem to want to do anything but blame the reality of the situation. There is no Afghanistan. There’s just a region, full of medieval backwater tribes unwilling to look further than those allegiances. They have no ideals to fight for. And decided by inaction and cowardice, to let the Taliban assert control.

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Kikimara99 t1_j56jnf0 wrote

I understand what you're saying. On personal level I understand every Afghan, who wanted to run away and save themselves and their families. On the other hand, when everyone runs away...there is simply no country. Ukraine is a good example. Last winter we had some construction workers from Ukraine reconstructing the building I'm working at. Then the war had broken, they all left to fight for their country. No one would have blamed them for staying in safety, but young men in their 20s and 30s chose to risk their lives for their land. We are still in touch and my employee occasionally raises money for their needs - medicine, night vision goggles etc. I have nothing, but utter respect for these people. Afghan on other hand, don't seem to see their land as an idea worth fighting for. Maybe it's, because Afghanistan is so ethnically diverse. I don't know.

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RKU69 t1_j56lbat wrote

I think the situations are totally different. Ukraine has had a stable, well-defined country and government for ~100 years now, and I think an ethnic identity going a long time before that. Even through the break-up of the USSR. And the current war is an external country invading your own sovereign country.

By contrast, Afghanistan has been in a state of civil war since 1979 - 40 years of war, chaos, shifting sides, imperial interventions, often with no real "good side" to root for or support. At a certain point people lose all hope and just try to get the hell out of the way. Unlike Ukraine, there was no highly legitimate and popular government to rally behind in Afghanistan and hasn't been for a long time. And if the Ukraine-Russia war goes on for a long time, Ukraine might well go that way too, if the government degenerates and new sides pop up, etc.

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Kikimara99 t1_j56o7zp wrote

I agree that Ukraine is different, because it was much more stable, though,I would disagree with 'popular government'; I also agree that Afghanistan had a long period of chaos; however, at some point a nation must develop this idea of responsibility and being in charge of your country's future. Afghanistan has a generation of 20 year olds who were born with relative access to education and opportunities, at least in places like Kabul and other bigger cities. They know a different life, so why aren't they fighting for it.

My country recreated itself 100 years ago, we were a part of Russian empire. Under tsar's rule my language was prohibited for 40 years and people who taught it in secret were sent to die in Siberia or hanged, but we maintained out identity and we fought. We had two brutal uprising. After brief period of independence, we were once again occupied by nazi and later on by USSR...we fought. And now we are independent again, really stable, relatively rich, part of the EU, part of NATO etc. You can go against odds if a significant number of people believe in same idea.

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