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Colt1911-45 t1_jaobbc1 wrote

Reply to comment by Zian64 in Purple Heart awarded to deputy in fatal shooting during middle school pickup prompts backlash by SLaSZT

Saying ACAB is not going to change anything. It will only make the so called thin blue line tighten up more and turn some of these agencies that act similar to gangs even more tight knit gangs. The whole us vs them mentality will just get worse. We need more level headed police and we need more funding for oversight and training. If we keep shitting on policing as a career you are gonna get more lazy and stupid cops and some who join to bully people. We also need communities to get more involved in policing and stop the whole snitches get stitches mentality that some communities have. So TLDR: fuck everyone shouting ACAB because you are not offering a solution to a problem.

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The_Dankinator t1_jaotlgc wrote

>we need more funding for oversight and training.

Bro please just one more dollar bro just one more dollar and we'll fix the abuse problem. Please bro don't defund the police bro we just need one more dollar bro

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Colt1911-45 t1_jaowopy wrote

What's your solution, bro? Offer a solution instead of criticism, bro. I'll give you some of my solutions, bro. More funding and training for police, BUT how about we end the drug war and stop imprisoning less 9f our people. We could fund so many more programs to keep people out of prison and keep them from being criminals. Yes these are solutions to work towards instead of blaming people for shit and pointing fingers.

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shalafi71 t1_jap7ood wrote

Another reply from me.

"Defund the police", is about the dumbest political slogan I've ever heard in life. And I ain't new here.

Too much to unpack from that phrase. You and I know the idea is to divert police funding to more appropriate responders.

And yes, drop the drug war. That's not gonna fly because it's an effective way to lock up "undesirables". Read: "POC, white trash, anyone we don't like."

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shalafi71 t1_jap6v6e wrote

Sane reply there. Of course reddit will bury you for not toeing the party line. Comrade /u/Colt1911-45

I'd argue this; Police don't need more funding and training. After all, you can't train morals. It's nice to think more training would work, but as you say, "If we keep shitting on policing as a career you are gonna get more lazy and stupid cops and some who join to bully people. " I'd say it's far, far too late. We've been there for decades.

If we keep spouting "ACAB", and I'm a believer BTW, we push them into tighter and tighter isolation. There are no good outcomes from isolating a group of armed civilians.

We need to fund teams who will intervene in situations where armed men do not belong. Mental health crisis's come to mind. We should not be sending a bull to deal with an unruly teenager or a man having a schizophrenic episode. FFS, cops have responded to suicide calls and shot the "offender".

Anyway, sorry you got beat up for that post. Nothing terribly controversial there. I see less and less ability for us to have a civil conversation in America.

(BTW, LOVE your username. My Government Model is my all-time favorite. The history behind that machine is fascinating. Got a framed canvas print of the original 02/14/1911 patent by John Browning. Say it with me, "Back-to-back world war champs baby!")

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DocSpit t1_jarks67 wrote

This issue is that there isn't a fix. Not a real one. The biggest problems are institutional; at the core of how the justice system works.

Except in the cases of the most egregious oversteps, police don't typically face repercussions for unlawful acts. Why? Because the DAs and prosecutors know that, if they start going after cops the way they come after regular people, they'll suddenly stop getting cooperation from police on other cases; which in turn makes the prosecutors "look bad" because now they can't put genuine criminals behind bars.

Want to pursue civil action? Sorry: Qualified Immunity. Judges won't even let your case against an officer proceed to court unless you can point to an identical incident in the past where the courts already ruled an officer in the wrong. Even one small difference can invalidate the claim entirely. Quite the Catch-22 the judiciary set up, isn't it? It's made it so that cops can't even be punished for actual armed robbery...because no court actually ever ruled police can't rob people in broad daylight.

Exactly how much "additional training" do you believe it will be necessary for police officers to undergo in order for people like you and me to be allowed to sue them for wrongdoing, out of curiosity?

All the "additional training" in the world won't matter a lick if there are no consequences for violating that training. And that, institutionally, cannot happen in our current system unless the very policing agencies at fault allow it to. No conflict of interest there...

The real solution? People need to just stop calling the police, except in one of two situations:

  1. Some genuine life-or-death situation where bullets are already actively flying only only goons with more bullets have a hope of resolving things.

  2. When you just need an official report written up for an insurance company, like a vehicle accident.

Other than that, keep the cops away from a situation where they don't either need to kill someone or fill out paperwork, because that's all our entire criminal justice system has rendered them reliable for at this point.

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