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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd3b8yr wrote

Uh... Nice rant, but what does any of that have to do with the comment you're replying to? Remember, this is what they said:

>Just proof there's no end to tribalism, even amongst the victims of it.

They were just saying we're all susceptible to the same patterns of human behaviour, even after we've been on the very negative receiving end of it.

So I don't know what lines you're reading between but frankly your reply seems wildly out of place.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd3kd85 wrote

Ok. So the original article is about a tribe that calls itself Republicans. That tribe is working hard to legalize the persecution of another tribe called transgender folks. This particular article is about passing a law to keep less than 5 people in an entire (tiny population, but still) from participating in sports events where they have no distinct advantage (as born out by the complete lack of domination in any sport except for one person who was already an elite athlete). They have also been widely passing laws that will outlaw the public existence of transgender people on the basis that dressing in a manner they deem unfit for what they've decided their gender is is inherently sexual. They have passed laws requiring transgender people to put themselves in dangerous situations. They have widely lied about transgender people being dangerous to children. They are passing laws to take away access to life-saving care that every major national and international medical professional organization supports. They are specifically allowing these same procedures to be used on cis children, and only denying them to people who they know (because they have been directly told, under oath, by experts backed up by numerous studies by medical professionals) will be more inclined to suicide. Lest you think this is a bug, not a feature, at several major Republican engagements, they have routinely and loudly applauded calls for the extermination and elimintion of transgender people (but not, they later claim, their murder).

Transgender people then complain that they are being persecuted and are yelling loudly that they don't want to be persecuted. They have taken no violent actions. They have not called publicly for the extermination of the Republican party or its underlying groups. They have not excused literal neo-nazi groups from showing up armed and shouting threats at their public events. They have not started a news network to broadcast anti-Republican propaganda. They have simply (and more loudly now) asked not to be persecuted by hatemongering politicians who can't run on a policy platform anymore.

This person then claims that tribalism exists on both sides, which unless they are fond of writing random facts without any context, would clearly imply that both sides are the same, which in the context of reality, they are not. Kindly take your sad, overdone semantic argument and be honest with yourself. Neither of you care one whit about fairness or truth or justice or peace. You simply want quiet and order, and you are willing to sacrifice others to get it. I'm sorry you lack the ability to contextualize dog whistles. I'm glad you don't have to understand them on a visceral level because it is a vital survival skill, though.

Maybe next time, hear what someone else says, and consider why they are saying it before assuming I spend too much time online. I probably do, but then, as the majority of my state is happy face state sponsored persecution, going outside my house requires quite a bit of effort. Individually, most people couldn't care less, but all it takes is one person willing to yell loudly, and it becomes a crowd, and crowds can be cruel, heartless, and dangerous things.

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ChuckFeathers t1_jd3pqfu wrote

Yeah that's not at all what I meant, as others have said, I was talking about this L group acting tribalist toward T's.

Just to be clear, I am 100% on your side and both sides are definitely not the same.

Fuck Repugnicans. Fuck Christo-fascists. Fuck bigotry.

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd3pz0t wrote

I think you are reading way too much into small comments. Just because you are part of a marginalized group (even one currently under attack) doesn't mean human nature no longer applies to you. That's the whole point, here, full stop.

Nobody is saying you're wrong about the horrible direction the Republican party is leading their voters, just that tribalism (the innate human behaviour of forming an in-group) is a pervasive concept that could help explain why and how we act the way we act. That's it - tribalism is not even necessarily a bad thing, in general, and I'm certainly not defending the Republican party.

Also, it was a different Redditor that said you spend too much time online, not me. This latching on to small, inoffensive comments as though they are attacks directed at you does kind of make me think they may be right, though.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd4eftr wrote

First and foremost: if you don't want to get called out for saying things that bigots and centrists who support them say, then don't say them.

Secondly, you specifically went out of your way to comment about how I am the same as my oppressor... what exactly was your intention. Do you just state random facts at times? Do you not recognize how being equated with people who have publicly and frequently called for the extermination of people like you, and side with groups who think the Nazi's didn't go far enough might be offensive to someone?

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd4h353 wrote

Aghhhh! Again, this is not at all the intent behind my replies. You are taking them in a very personal way AND confusing me with other redditors, when all I'm saying is:

>You are also a human

The end! Nobody is infallible. My whole intention is that YOU shouldn't consider yourself completely different from any group of people, because you will always have the common denominator of being human. YOU are just as much of a human as Obama, Ghandi, Oprah, Cher, Putin, Trump, and Napoleon goddamn Bonaparte. You can think you're not, but you would be wrong.

Put yourself on the highest pedestal you want, project whatever awfulness onto me you want, but this aggressive, debate-anyone-who-might-be-an-enemy approach of yours is only going to push people away.

I'm saying you should be reasonable and recognize your own bias, you're saying I agree with bigots/nazis, but somehow you're the offended one in all this? That fucked up attitude is going to undermine anything positive you're trying to accomplish.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd4rj19 wrote

Do you seriously not see how the context of this conversation, in which most of the comments surrounding the debate over whether or not I should be treated like a human, the comment that I am human, just like my oppressor could easily be construed as an insult or minimiztion of the situation?

If you are an ally, I beg you to listen. I don't need useless statements of facts that I am the same as my oppressor. That is not being a good ally. If my joke was about exterminating them or denying them the right to deal with a medical issue, then by all means, tell me I've gone too far.

But we don't need allies who back away from supporting us because we made a joke about the number of proven pedophiles in the groups accusing us of being pedophiles. Or people who dont listen when we tell them why what they just said was offensive. If that puts you off, how are you going to respond when things get really hard? This isn't a game anymore. I have to sell my house next month because I can't take the risk that the state I've lived in their while life won't come after me and my kid. I am afraid. There are open calls for genocide, that they claim aren't open calls for genocide, but what do you call an hour long screed about exterminating and eliminating people?

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd4znjf wrote

You know what, it feels like I say something simple and rational, and then you reply like you're replying to five different people at once. You're putting things other people have said onto me so you can debate those things. But I don't agree with it, you just seem to think I do because I pointed out that what the original comment said was not incorrect.

I can't support positions that I don't agree with, so the more of those you project onto me, the less I want to talk to you because I feel like I'm just "the enemy" to you, even though if we met in real life you'd see just how wrong that assumption is.

TO BE 100% CLEAR:

The original comment, from my understanding, was an observation about how Lesbian groups, despite the adversity they have faced, are still forcing that same adversity onto trans groups. This is a facet of human behaviour wherein we seek to identify with groups of people like ourselves, and UNFORTUNATELY will also lash out at people not in the group, and not always for logical reasons. It's sad, and not a good thing, but you replied as if to say that it was completely made up and not relevant, when --> addressing that behaviour is how we can start to face these problems <--

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killerbee2319 t1_jd5rfjf wrote

Yes... it has been a long day. You were and are right. 100% I was on a completely different book... on a totally different topic. This is not at all sarcasm. Just me being an idiot and finally admitting it.

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd6bj4i wrote

I really appreciate you saying this, no hard feelings. I hope you understood my point about the common ground we share, even with our least favorite people, because I feel like that is so important to help things move in the right direction, little by little, in all of our communities.

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