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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdtg9ie wrote

Former screener here: peanut butter is approximately the same density as C4 when viewed on TSA’s X-ray screens. It sets off a false alarm on the automated bomb detection software, and the X-ray can’t see through it. You can hide whatever you want inside a peanut butter jar and it will be hidden from the X-ray operator (within certain size limitations).

They didn’t ban it for no reason.

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Cerrida82 t1_jduvfxv wrote

So are Magic: the Gathering cards, apparently. We got stopped because they found solid, rectangular shapes in our suitcases. Explosives? Nope, just our MtG decks.

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gtrocks555 t1_jdwli7f wrote

Got stopped for a card game in a box with “sharp edges” too. I didn’t even open it though, they just took it out, saw it was a card game and told me why it was flagged and let me be

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdv4vyi wrote

I can see that. The coating on the cards and the type of paper stock probably make for a nice organic looking orange brick on the X-ray, like a brick of Semtex

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Callinon t1_jdwo8zj wrote

Forgive me for saying so but it sounds like this machine isn't very reliable. If it's routinely mistaking cards for bombs and peanut butter for homemade explosives, that feels like a very high false positive rate to me.

Maybe instead of banning everything in sight, it'd be better to fix the machine?

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Ketheres t1_jdwu6cg wrote

>this machine isn't very reliable

Because it isn't. It's practically all about theatrics to make people feel safer in a post-9/11 society.

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DjuriWarface t1_jdwwv4b wrote

False positives are fine though. Mostly no harm done. False negatives are the concern. I realize the TSA is still not that effective but still.

Not being able to bring peanut butter through TSA is hardly going to affect anybody.

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Callinon t1_jdx31l7 wrote

Never travelled with very young children I take it?

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdxboow wrote

Do your children only eat peanut butter with their fingers? Just make it into sandwiches, put it in crackers, dip the celery in it, or whatever it is you do with peanut butter BEFORE you pack it, and it will cruise through the xray

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LuvCilantro t1_jdx60nq wrote

You could always put it in your checked suitcase. It is quite plausible that the number of people who MUST travel with a jar of peanut butter in their carry on is small enough to not warrant an exception.

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Callinon t1_jdxb4hv wrote

>You could always put it in your checked suitcase

Never travelled with very young children I take it?

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdxbf6v wrote

False positives like crazy. That’s why there are still humans checking every bag the computer flags

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Eruionmel t1_jdwuida wrote

>it'd be better to fix the machine?

Oh thank god, someone finally suggested it. We assume you have ideas on how better to literally see through solid objects? If you'll head right this way, our R&D team would love to get started on your plan...

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ryanCrypt t1_jdtnog0 wrote

I don't agree or disagree with this discussion, but thanks for reasoning.

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Ghosttalker96 t1_jdujodu wrote

I can however confirm that it does not taste the same.

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StillSundayDrunk t1_jdwkatz wrote

Also, imagine if they smeared Mr. Ed's gums with C4 to get him to "talk" on the show. Instant tragedy.

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ElGuapo315 t1_jdv1yka wrote

But the stupidity is that if you freeze peanut butter it's suddenly ok.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdv4g3p wrote

Uh… you think increasing the density of the item that’s too dense will convince TSA to let it in baggage?

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ElGuapo315 t1_jdv4t24 wrote

TSA: You have to dump out that water.

Also TSA: Ice cubes? You're good to go!

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdv5gjd wrote

Hah! That’s hilariously amazing. New one to me. Edit: after some thought… one reason you can’t have water is because there are explosive components that look very similar to water. But they don’t freeze. So if your water is frozen then it can’t be a liquid component of an ied.

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Ketheres t1_jdwujix wrote

>But they don’t freeze.

You can freeze all matter if you get it cold enough, and stuff that's liquid in room temperature usually doesn't need to be really cold to be frozen solid. Stuff that looks like water when liquid might not look like water ice when solid though.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdxb7th wrote

Riiiight, but the explosive slurries have such a low freezing temp that it would not stay frozen at room temperature long enough to get through security

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Longshot_45 t1_jduzdv5 wrote

Ah, the guy who tried to smuggle a handgun through TSA in a jar of peanut butter makes more sense now.

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Callinon t1_jdwol5z wrote

It's ok, the bullets were coated with jelly. So it all balanced out.

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burrito-disciple t1_jdwrrfk wrote

>You can hide whatever you want inside a peanut butter jar and it will be hidden from the X-ray operator

Can confirm, I used to live with a guy who smuggled drugs all over the country via US mail just by sticking things inside peanut butter jars.

Eventually got caught, but not because of how he shipped things.

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Sluggish0351 t1_jdwyyg2 wrote

This doesn't seem like a good excuse considering that there are devices that can sniff out C4, as it has a very distinct scent. There is literally no reason to believe that peanut butter is C4. If they actually cared about safety they would just invest in tools that identified actual threats instead of just making life harder for people traveling.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdxawhc wrote

Have you never shrink wrapped food before? It’s not all that complicated to package smelly materials so that they can’t be smelled. The X-ray is the device that can detect explosives almost perfectly

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Sluggish0351 t1_jdxv1xz wrote

Lol I used to work with C4. I have used the tech I am talking about. It can sense the scent of C4 on a person's hands that have been washed numerous times. It can detect it through packaging. C4 literally comes in plastic wrapping and is detected through it.

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hockeyh2opolo t1_jdxpxya wrote

Apparently so is cheddar cheese, got held up for a while with a block of white cheddar because it looked and scanned like c4

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--___- t1_jdvqjuk wrote

We travelled to Israel with jar of peanut butter in checked luggage. As it happened, the kids liked the food and we didn’t use it.

When at the airport for our return home, Israel security pulled our bag aside, rummaged through and asked us about the peanut butter. They let it go back in the bag.

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[deleted] t1_jdtt780 wrote

[deleted]

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Desert_Avalanche t1_jdtvtrc wrote

You stand in a millimeter wave imaging machine.

Your bag goes through an x-ray machine.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdtxe6e wrote

Then why does it say X-ray on the side, on the monitor, in the manual, and in the training?

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Sciguystfm t1_jdvf5uc wrote

The entire agency exists for no reason my dude

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdvfzxv wrote

I understand your point, but you’re grossly overstating it. Hijacking used to be commonplace in the 70s & 80s. Then 9/11 obviously happened and TSA was obviously created in reaction to that, so there are obviously reasons. Whether those reasons justify the existence of TSA is a different discussion tho

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tauntingbob t1_jdx3h36 wrote

The number of airplane hijackings was already in decline during the 90s and processes were already improving at airports around the world. Remembering that the TSA is a purely US production and doesn't represent the world, where most incidents happened. The world's airports have improved their processes and it's improved security a fair bit.

But ultimately the evidence is there, the TSA fails almost every test they're checked against by their own organisation. They're probably the least effective security force in the world, other than to frustrate people, they're good at that.

$8bn a year for an organisation who let through banned materials 70% of the time... https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellistalton/2019/01/28/is-the-tsa-really-necessary/

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdxap5p wrote

They were designed to frustrate would-be terrorists, so it makes sense that they frustrate everyone else too

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Sciguystfm t1_jdvouq7 wrote

I mean the reason was entirely security theater.

Locking, reinforced cabin doors and air marshals prevent another 9/11, banning toothpaste does not.

There's zero evidence the TSA has stopped a single terror attack, and on top of that they fail their own internal red team tests 95% of the time

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdvrxle wrote

They are the most expensive home security window sticker ever. While they haven’t actively prevented terrorist actions, their mere presence may have been sufficient to make terrorists seek softer targets. Unfortunately, that’s hardly something we can measure or quantify

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Poguemohon t1_jdwsrnf wrote

Idk why you're getting downvoted? You're literally talking about the shit Ralph Nader proposed before 9/11.

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penguished t1_jdvayio wrote

So what you're saying is they paid through the nose for shitty tech with problems like that, that haven't been fixed, and so the ultimate solution is ban peanut butter. Wonderful work.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdvchy5 wrote

No…. I’m saying That the laws of physics don’t allow us to distinguish between the two substances.
It’s like when men look at two things that appear to be the same shade of yellow, but really they are different shades of yellow. (Men are less able to discern differences between shades of yellow than 1/3rd of women who have more yellow cones in their eyes)

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penguished t1_jdvs6qx wrote

Technology isn't men though. It's meant to be doing things we can't on its own. With how powerful stuff like AI analysis is getting, they should find better solutions.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_jdvued3 wrote

I would personally prefer my tax dollars not be spent on upgrading these systems, antiquated tho they might be. We haven’t had a plane blown up or hijacked in over 20 years

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