Accomplished-Ad4334 t1_j079bxv wrote on December 14, 2022 at 4:09 PM

Reply to comment by ArrestDeathSantis in Adam Sandler wins the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor by ZylonBane

Interesting point. I took a Africana studies class in college and one of the debates with this opinion is that by believing someone was a product of their time, it erases the people who actually did believe that black people deserved rights and were equal like the whites during this period.

Just food for thought.

ArrestDeathSantis t1_j07ci75 wrote on December 14, 2022 at 4:30 PM

I understand, but that's not exactly the point I was making.

Mark Twain, for example, did believe that black people deserved rights and deserved to be treated like white people, but he still held some beliefs that conflicted with these ideas.

I'm not saying we should completely ignore the second part to focus on the first, I'm saying we should look at the second part under the light of the first part.

If, on the other hand, he had openly argued in favor of slavery, in favor of an unjust society, then it would be a completely different situation but this is not what he did.

An other good example of this, Schindler. Schindler was antisemitic, he even joined the Nazi party, but he ended saving thousands of Jews by risking his life every second of every day.

John Brown held some racist beliefs too, but he died, hanged, trying to end slavery.

These are people of their time but they elevated themselves above it, above their misconceptions and their prejudices, to fight for what they believed was right.

This not like saying "General Lee was a man of his time", for example.

WobblyBlade t1_j092tin wrote on December 14, 2022 at 11:09 PM

"A product of their time" is a reasonable framework to compare people to, because it highlights the areas where they were pushing forward toward something better. It shouldn't be a justification for people that did nothing, or doubled down on the status quo. When someone says look at mark Twain the man was a racist, comparing him to his time is like using a red filter to find the blue lines in a hidden message picture. It highlights the ways they were different and progressive. Or at least it can. Everyone is a product of the culture they came from. What's important is how they pushed forward. We do need to remember that no one breaks the mold completely. We just get to make sure the next generation's mold is better.