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TwilitSky t1_ivv4vhq wrote

The bikes and scooters seem riskier than the cars at this point.

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[deleted] t1_ivv9b2a wrote

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TwilitSky t1_ivv9p8b wrote

Is it? People aren't following traffic laws going the wrong way and cutting off pedestrians with walk signals, riding in designated zones (gtfo the sidewalk!) and seem to have zero regard for pedestrians not even slowing at intersections. All of this often on motorized devices that can do plenty of damage in their own right.

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beagle_bathouse t1_ivvb0ec wrote

> Is it? People aren't following traffic laws going the wrong way and cutting off pedestrians with walk signals, riding in designated zones

Bro have you seen driving in NY?

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[deleted] t1_ivva79s wrote

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billiam632 t1_ivvq4di wrote

I don't really see the point in this. Can't someone say that bikers are notorious for refusing to follow even the most basic of traffic laws all around nyc without someone pointing to cars as well? Yes we all know cars are terrible for the city but bikers need to follow the rules and stop putting themselves at risk.

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[deleted] t1_ivvqb4l wrote

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billiam632 t1_ivwlpo7 wrote

But it is bad when people do that. Why would you just handwave criticism like that?

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[deleted] t1_ivwnung wrote

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billiam632 t1_ivwonrv wrote

Except I cannot understand someone who takes additional effort to actually dismiss someone who is getting upset about it. That is the mind of someone who I cannot understand whatsoever.

Like okay you think I am being dramatic. What does that make you?

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[deleted] t1_ivwp3p1 wrote

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billiam632 t1_ivwpnzr wrote

Doesn't take additional effort for me to state that people on bikes should follow the rules of the road to prevent accidents. Sooo controversial I know.

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TwilitSky t1_ivvb78r wrote

Alright, fair.

We do need to get both under control, though.

I personally know way too many people with injuries from bikes and scooters.

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SuckMyBike t1_ivvdwmd wrote

As a Belgian, that is heavily involved in alternative mobility advocacy, I can tell you, everyone everywhere complains about the behavior of road users in their city.

NYC, LA, Houston, Toronto, London, Paris, Barcelona, Milan, ... Heck, even in my small Belgian city with a 100k population people think we have the worst road users.

Cars complain about cyclists. Cyclists complain about cars. Everywhere.

Studies (both in the EU and the US) that look at how often both drivers and cyclists break the law consistently find that they break the law at the same rate. Being a driver or a cyclist doesn't make one more prone to breaking the law. It's all just confirmation bias.

Turns out, it's just assholes being assholes. Someone who breaks the law while driving isn't going to magically behave when on a bicycle. And vice versa.

The Dutch realized this many decades ago already. So they decided to apply the logic "if people are going to break the law anyway, it's best if they're on a bicycle, not in a car".

After all, a cyclist breaking the law and hitting a pedestrian is bad. But the pedestrian likely lives to rant about it.
But a car driver breaking the law and hitting a pedestrian? High likelihood that pedestrian doesn't live to tell the tale.

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freeradicalx t1_ivvy1cd wrote

The solution is to formalize accommodations for motorized micro-mobility. Scooters and ebikes and mopeds exist, and they are very well-adapted for city travel, so we need to give them designated street space if mixing them with other traffic is dangerous.

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beagle_bathouse t1_ivvax65 wrote

Whats the body count on bikes/scooter vs cars?

spoilers, cars have it by magnitudes. Even when adjusted per vehicle capita.

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TeamMisha t1_ivvec68 wrote

Would you prefer to be hit by a multi-ton vehicle or a 120 lb girl on a scooter, the risk of each mode of operation becomes clear quite quickly :)

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TwilitSky t1_ivvf29k wrote

Sure but it doesn't mean we shouldn't control both to prevent accidents. We can do two things at once.

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Miser OP t1_ivvgz36 wrote

Building bike lanes to get all the bikes and other micromobility into the same place on the street is literally a form of controlling them and making things safer for everyone.

The point is if you replace something very dangerous and harmful with something that is only a tiny bit harmful it's a huge net win safety wise.

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George4Mayor86 t1_ivvzgtt wrote

Getting bumped by a 140 pound guy on a scooter is much, much preferable to getting killed by an idiot texting and speeding in a multi-ton car.

Yes we should enforce good street use on smaller vehicles, but in terms of potential for injury it’s apples and oranges.

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Warpedme t1_ivy1bax wrote

While I completely agree with your point I'm laughing at "140lb guy". That's like a preteen weight. Adult men are going to be 150 minimum for a super skinny dude and a fit or chubby guy will be ~200lbs.

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