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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izo2e1v wrote

I wish libraries would modernize.

Double down on ebooks, reduce real estate footprint to being hole in the walls or even kiosks with overnight delivery of what you ordered.

Reality is there’s no reason you can’t warehouse their inventory and deliver to locations as needed on a much more serious scale than the hold system of the early 1900’s.

It’s time to modernize. Less branches but more locations. Some empty storefronts would be more than large enough for a modern library.

But pretending it’s 1906 in 2022 is the main reason libraries in the US are floundering.

In much of the world many libraries are in a corner of the grocery store, malls, transit hubs etc. order what you want and pick it up later in the day or next day. Then return there. Their footprint is just a few feet. More convenient and much lower cost. It also allows them to be everywhere. You can be much more accessible this way being in every neighborhood.

This is what much of the world does with great success. The US is the one with failing libraries.

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Remarkable_Landscape t1_izo3tn8 wrote

The library provides many, many more resources than books for people. Physical locations (which are owned by the city) are central to how most people use the library. They keep track of usage, even during the pandemic ebooks only made a fraction of the loans they normally make.

More importantly the library 's social value is who they serve, which includes a lot of people who need IRL support. Seniors, children, people who live in poverty and need access to technology all need branches, that's why they're opening new ones. They also have tech and spaces for at home workers too, at the new branches, so white collar workers benefit as well.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izo470e wrote

That’s stuff that needs to be fixed by having proper resources. Not dumping it on libraries which are I’ll prepared or capable of dealing with these problems.

Spending money inefficiently isn’t fixing the problem.

This is no different than using the subway system as a way to avoid needing more shelters for the homeless. That’s not what the E train is for.

Fixing problems requires fixing the actual problems and providing proper support solutions. Not using libraries as a catch all.

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Remarkable_Landscape t1_izo4qv6 wrote

...the current system is "people need to borrow stuff for free and use free tech sometimes because they don't own any" and they go to a neighborhood location and do that. How do you propose they do that more efficiently?

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izo5593 wrote

You don’t need 30k feet of floor space with stacks of books in a 1-3 story building that takes up 1/4 a city block for that.

Asia has shown us how little you need for an Internet cafe. A restaurant’s footprint can serve 3-4x that many people.

My point is much of the world has already done this. The US is pretty alone with not modernizing how libraries operate.

It’s not surprising it works elsewhere and the US is alone with struggling libraries.

The US is obsessed with tradition, and this is a perfect example. Libraries aren’t working, the rest of the world figured this out years ago. We pretend we have no idea what’s going on and do nothing.

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Stephreads t1_izo6no7 wrote

You’ve not been to many branches, have you?

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MarbleFox_ t1_izo9t45 wrote

> Asia has shown us how little you need for an Internet cafe.

Okay, but we’re not talking about Internet cafes, we’re talking about libraries. You know libraries throughout Asia look and function pretty similarly to libraries in America, right?

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Rolling-fatties t1_izoeacr wrote

Username on point, you’re brain broken dude. Go to the library literally one time before posting about how they need to “modernize”

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lindsfeinfriend t1_izoq63g wrote

What are you even talking about? There’s a few historic public libraries and the rest are small community branches. If you need to borrow a book chances are you’ll be going to a neighborhood library and not 42nd street. Local libraries offer programs for adult literacy, basic computer skills, budgeting, job search support, career coaching, college application assistance…and those are just the adult programs. Libraries are a community space.

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FormerKarmaKing t1_izo3pxi wrote

Libraries are community centers, not just distributors. Need to study somewhere quieter than home? Library. Don’t have a decent computer and need to apply bc of a job or deal with government websites? Library.

Personally, I read e-books and don’t go to the library because I have all of those amenities at home. But I’m glad the library is there for the people that don’t.

Also, NYC libraries do provide lots of eBooks and audio books for free via the great Libby app.

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shhhhquiet t1_izobm5x wrote

Man you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. “Time to modernize!!!” By becoming a bare bones book request delivery system and letting everything else we do fall by the wayside. Do you use libraries? Or are you just assuming you know more about them than the people who run them?

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izoj3xp wrote

This is a common model in much of the world.

NYC libraries struggle because that’s how the city likes it. That’s not opinion. That’s fact.

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LoneStarTallBoi t1_izolpqo wrote

Lmao no its not. It's a feature of the model but it's not the entire model. All of those library systems that have pick up/drop off services also invest heavily in their main campus and branches.

You're just parroting shit you heard in a TedX talk from a some asshole who wants to turn libraries into a business.

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shhhhquiet t1_izp1enn wrote

What you're saying is definitely not a fact. Mall kiosks are a thing (and the US has them too, sorry to bust that narrative.* But that's not the same thing as it being 'a common model in much of the world.' They're useful in areas that can't support a full library. In cities, they're mostly pointless, because the population is dense enough to have an actual library. They'd be an extra here, not a replacement for a full service library.

I'll ask you again: do you use libraries? Because picking up requests is not even in the top five things people visit my library for.

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Rakonas t1_izo5hpk wrote

Ebooks are extremely expensive to have for loan

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turnupthesun211 t1_izoh0bi wrote

>Double down on ebooks

Everyone else has brought up incredible points in their replies to you, but I need to specifically point out that you (and many others) have no idea how much eBooks cost for libraries. Not only is the cost often at least double what it is for the consumer, the licenses for these eBooks disappear after x-amount of time or x-number of checkouts and the libraries have to purchase them again and again.

If more people understood that this is how publishers and distributors operate, they wouldn't be blaming libraries for not being "modern" enough. We don't have the money for it!

ETA: Regarding the common internet cafe argument I often see people make, internet cafes frequently cost money either to use the internet service itself OR with the assumption that someone has their own device that can make use of free internet. The point of a library having computers and internet is that it is free for the community to use, whether they have their own device and/or money to pay for internet service or not.

ETA again, I wrote "comment internet cafe" instead of "common internet cafe" and hate myself for that typo so I fixed it.

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glemnar t1_izodzdu wrote

People in poverty use the library for internet access. It’s a vital public service

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izoeioj wrote

You don't need stacks of books to provide internet access.

You can use multiple smaller retail locations for that. More accessible and less under utilized square footage.

Again for the back row: Many countries have solved this problem. It's only the US that has struggling libraries because they refuse to modernize. This is a self inflicted problem.

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txdline t1_izok1y2 wrote

Libraries aren't just that. There's an intangibles to something's that raise a community.

But if you want to just focus on the space it occupies, I've been to two libraries outside the states and they were all big and beautiful. Stacks of books.

Here's a top list too which I guess would have you say it's a waste. https://www.thebestcolleges.org/amazing-libraries/

But maybe you could share some sources to how other countries are managing library systems? And how that has improved libraries for the people. Rather than us just take your word on it.

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CooperHoya t1_izo9jia wrote

I remember having an app when I was in California where I could check out ebooks with my library card. Don’t we have something similar in NY? I haven’t gotten a card as I moved back right before Covid and had too many life events to have the time. Q1 2023 it will happen.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_izoc1pi wrote

It's pretty limited in many states. Few books, cumbersome. Pretty archaic.California's libraries are way ahead in terms of US libraries.

Most of the world even physical books you can order via kiosk or app, and pickup at one of many locations like supermarkets, post offices, etc where libraries have sometimes just a locker, or a small kiosk or storefront. Return at any one of them too. Smaller locations will have a few computers for research etc.

vs. the archaic buildings full of dusty books and people having to wait a few days for a book they want or travel to the right library to get it which is how NY still operates.

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King-of-New-York OP t1_izoigus wrote

A not often talked about aspect of having books ordered is a loss of serendipity. Finding a book by chance, whether in a library or bookstore, on subject matter or genre that you previously had no knowledge or interest in is one of the most fun ways to expand your imagination or world view.

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turnupthesun211 t1_izohbdb wrote

>Most of the world even physical books you can order via kiosk or app, and pickup at one of many locations like supermarkets, post offices, etc where libraries have sometimes just a locker, or a small kiosk or storefront.

A lot of the places that utilize this method do not have a large number of accessible branches for patrons to use AKA the opposite of 3 systems in NYC.

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JustMeRC t1_izpz1nn wrote

Dusty books, lol. You know librarians regularly remove books that don’t circulate from their collections, right? Shelf space is valuable. Do you think libraries just keep accumulating books and never get rid of any?

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tearsana t1_izraicm wrote

you can order books you want through the library system, it just takes a while given yhe number of people and the limited copies a library has.

the library also offers a lot of community service. they offer job skills training for adults, translation services, government aid help workshops etc. I frequently use mine for 3d printing.

a lot of the city are immigrants and the library provides many essential service for these families.

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