kolt54321 t1_j33qku5 wrote
Reply to comment by Miser in Traffic study by former head of NYC DOT reveals what he says is ultimate cause of congestion by HEIMDVLLR
This is not true in outer boroughs.
The reason there is traffic on the belt, 10 times out of 10, is because of a car crash. There is a total of one (!) Highway and when a crash happens all outbound traffic is slowed to a standstill.
Not everyone lives in Manhattan.
Maybe DOT could design more than one highway for 2.2 million people? It would be a start.
cdavidg4 t1_j33t53g wrote
Whose homes do you volunteer for demolition? Yours?
kolt54321 t1_j344y7a wrote
Ocean Parkway is one of the only outbound paths for Brooklyn, travels through over half of Brooklyn, and has a 25mph speed limit.
It's a 6 lane street (in addition to 2 service roads). There's a good amount of potential to turn that into a highway. Leave the service roads at the lower speed limit and have entry points into the the main 6 lanes (highway).
The infrastructure is already there.
cdavidg4 t1_j34ftqs wrote
We can't build an extension of the N/W to LaGuardia due to two blocks of homeowners screaming but you think people won't mind an elevated 6 lane highway down a landmarked roadway? Lol.
kolt54321 t1_j34gxc4 wrote
The 6 lanes are already in use. The only thing that would change are pedestrian crossings.
cdavidg4 t1_j34jdvg wrote
And the cross streets. And any bus routes that cross it.
And of course it's ONLY the pedestrian crossing. Who cares about those pesky poor people walking. Just add bridges and have them go up stairs to cross the freaking street.
kolt54321 t1_j34nnkx wrote
There are no bus routes on the entire stretch, per the city map.
There are significantly more people driving through Ocean Parkway than walking across it - which is serviced better? Those "pesky poor people" live in a multi-million dollar area, you cannot get a house there for under $2M, minimum.
Again, if you took a look at the road, you'd see that walking down and up Ocean Parkway would be completely preserved by the wide sidewalks between the main lanes and service roads. It's only crossing it that will be different.
I say that as someone who bikes and walks more than I ever use a car.
cdavidg4 t1_j34paok wrote
Bus routes across. Do they go up and over? Or do you still have to have the signals for cross traffic? If you need the signals for cross traffic what's the point of this?
And okay, we make Ocean Expressway a thing. It can process a lot more vehicles. Those vehicles get to the Prospect Expressway/Gowanus interchange. Now what? It's already congested. Now there's just more cars sitting around looking at each other in traffic. What an improvement!
kolt54321 t1_j35m2b3 wrote
> Bus routes across. Do they go up and over? Or do you still have to have the signals for cross traffic? If you need the signals for cross traffic what's the point of this?
These are all good questions, and I can't claim to know the perfect answers here, but it seem like ramps to get on/off the highway from the service roads would help. There would still need to be one to cross traffic travelling the other way, and I'm not sure what would be the best way to handle that.
If anything, reducing signals from every block to 3-4 intersections along half of Brooklyn would solve most of these issues too. Not to mention all the fatalities that plagued Ocean Parkway to begin with - now it can be a scenic walk/bike route, without having to worry about cars flying across on every street.
> Those vehicles get to the Prospect Expressway/Gowanus interchange. Now what?
Also a fantastic point. That stretch is congested, but nothing near the amount of time it takes to travel through southern Brooklyn. Getting to the Prospect Expressway takes upwards of 20 minutes alone.
I'm not exactly sure what could be done about that, but it seems like this would be a first step. There's a lot of traffic funneled through Exit 1/Fort Hamilton, and I wonder (as someone who's really not familiar with this stretch) if there's a better way to handle the bottlenecks. It seems lots of trucks go there, but not sure if truck-only hours would do the trick at all.
Key-Recognition-7190 t1_j3492w2 wrote
That's absolutely cute if you think that a major highway going directly through the Neighborhood of gods chosen people is going to happen.
I agree it should happen but we all know it isn't. There's a reason its 25 mph.
kolt54321 t1_j34ad0q wrote
I don't like what you're suggesting. The Jewish people there would love to have an actual highway instead of a 25mph crawl.
It's not even Jewish until like Ave J.
Key-Recognition-7190 t1_j34bq7g wrote
Ocean Parkway is like the Queensblvd of Brooklyn in terms of road fatalities, that is what alluding to regarding the 25 speed limit.
As for the Jewish slant a major throughfair would decimate land value on top of literally slicing the neighborhood in half.
If Ocean parkway becomes Ocean expressway you CANNOT have pedestrian crossings.
kolt54321 t1_j34eu3s wrote
You can definitely have pedestrian crossings. Just have them go over the highway like every other highway out there.
"30 minutes drive into the city" is a powerful attractor. Every single building on Ocean Parkway is an apartment building, not a house.
Key-Recognition-7190 t1_j34fv0t wrote
For bridge crossings to support trucks they would have to be at certain height and to preserve the current street there would need to be many thats expensive but doable ill admit.
However that 30 minutes to Manhattan pitch doesn't hold up to the reality that is the Hellish Fort Hamilton Gowan merge. Also immediate behind the apartments are mostly houses.
kolt54321 t1_j34gu1h wrote
Agreed on both points. I'm just thinking that the bike lanes they have between the main lanes and service roads already solve half the battle.
It could also be spun as avoiding fatalities altogether. It would definitely need investment for the bridges (and restructuring the service road into a ramp) but honestly not much compared to other highways out there.
Die-Nacht t1_j33ymmm wrote
Fewer cars driving into manhattan on said highways would decrease the chances of crashes.
Also, tear down the beltway. Tear down every single urban highway. Watch all that traffic disappear.
kolt54321 t1_j345fvd wrote
The Belt doesn't even go into Manhattan.
Die-Nacht t1_j345uz6 wrote
So? There are likely many cars on the belt trying to get to Manhattan.
It's the central business center of the region. Reducing car demand to it will cause reduced congestion everywhere around it.
kolt54321 t1_j34al16 wrote
So to reduce car demand you suggest... Eliminating roads?
That's the most backwards way to look at it that I can imagine. Why not knock down every residential building in manhattan to reduce rent if you're going down that route?
Die-Nacht t1_j34lhm2 wrote
That wouldn't reduce the rent. It would reduce housing supply, which would reduce how many ppl can live there. And that's a bad thing. This is why rent is so high in NYC: housing supply is artificially kept low.
Reducing road space reduces road supply, which reduces the amount of driving, which in term reduces traffic. Which is a good thing. This is the opposite of "induced demand", which is a well studied phenomena
kolt54321 t1_j34n1i9 wrote
Why would reduced road supply reduce the amount of driving? In transit deserts (there are plenty of them in NYC), you need to drive to get anywhere.
Die-Nacht t1_j34rnav wrote
If you are actually curious, there's a good amount of research on this. Here are some links from several different publications to get you started:
https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2021/03/19/reduced-demand-just-important-induced-demand
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
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