Barmelo_Xanthony t1_j9l6jn6 wrote on February 22, 2023 at 7:53 PM

Reply to comment by Ng3me in Mayoral candidate Helen Gym and ex-Mayor Michael Nutter clashed during a live event: ‘We are just in total disagreement’ by thefirststoryteller

Is he there to “suck up headlines” or is he just pissed that the city that was in its best shape in history when he left in 2016 has reversed most of its progress?

napsdufroid t1_j9l80mg wrote on February 22, 2023 at 8:01 PM

I'll go with the latter for 1000, Alex

TheNightmareOfHair t1_j9lef6y wrote on February 22, 2023 at 8:41 PM

I'm sure there are a lot of pieces to this claim, but I'm just going to take the one I'm most knowledgeable on: "Homicides and violent crime hit record lows during my administration" (specifically 2013). Guess what? Homicides and violent crime bottomed out nationwide in 2013-14, then started trending up again everywhere after that (including in Philly, including in the last two years of Nutter's administration).

I'm tired of politicians who take credit for being in the right place at the right time. That's a signal that doesn't need boosting.

UndercoverPhilly t1_j9pvc5l wrote on February 23, 2023 at 6:48 PM

Were you living in Philly from 2008-2016? If you were you at least saw the physical changes that were made in Center City (can't say that North Philly experienced the same) during that time. I moved to Philly in 2006 and it had changed for the better, including decreased crime in 10 years. The number of restaurants, businesses had increased in Center City as well.

TheNightmareOfHair t1_j9qcbf8 wrote on February 23, 2023 at 8:34 PM

I was not living here, but the city that I was living in also changed greatly for the better during that time -- as did downtowns across the country.

So, just to be clear: I'm not saying that Philly didn't change for the better under Mayor X or Plan Y. I believe you when you say that it did -- and, specific to 2008-2014, I'd be a little surprised if it didn't. What I am saying is that if you're going to subscribe to a Great Mayor Theory, there's a higher bar than, "the city followed trends seen in most other American cities during that time." You wouldn't keep paying a financial advisor whose investments on your behalf merely tracked the market, even if that meant you got a 20% return, because an index fund would have accomplished the same thing.

UndercoverPhilly t1_j9rwal7 wrote on February 24, 2023 at 2:55 AM

Okay. So it seems that you are attributing all the positives in cities during 2008-2014 to ex-President Obama then. It was a much better time for sure.

Back to Nutter. Was he better than Kenney? Check. Better than Street? Check. Better than Rendell? (Maybe not--I wasn't here before Street so I don't know, but people say Rendell was a great mayor). Better than Rizzo? Check--so racist that people wanted his statue removed. Better than Wilson Goode? Check. (MOVE bombing was his claim to fame).

That's going back about 40 years, and other than Rendell, Nutter was one of the best. Granted, the bar is low for Philly, but it is a city with a lot of problems.

TheNightmareOfHair t1_j9u9ea6 wrote on February 24, 2023 at 4:35 PM

>So it seems that you are attributing all the positives in cities during 2008-2014 to ex-President Obama then.

Not really, no. I think there are some large-scale social phenomena that are just tough to explain. Going back to crime data (which, as I mentioned earlier, is what I know more about, so this is what I feel more comfortable dealing with -- and I also think crime/safety has a lot of knock-on effects that result in things like business development and cities "getting better" etc), there was somewhat of a global downward trend in homicides from 1990-2015 that no one has a particularly good explanation for either. Less pronounced than in the U.S., but still very noticeable and definitely statistically significant.

Anyway, I'll stop here, because I feel like you think I'm trying to fight with you. I'm really not. You might be right, for all I know -- maybe Nutter really was better than Street. IMO he was probably better than Kenney even under my stricter criteria, because most recently under Kenney Philly has actually been defying the national violent crime trends (and very much in the wrong direction). Ultimately I am trying encourage people to probe a bit more into the question of what indicates a "good mayor" and why. I appreciate you for engaging.

UndercoverPhilly t1_j9uu3gb wrote on February 24, 2023 at 6:45 PM

You are basing your opinion just off of statistics, since you weren't even living here. A mayor is more than just crime statistics. They are the leadership, public face of a city, they choose the police commissioner in Philly, and many other things related to quality of life in a city. What and how we experience life in a city is important. You can look around your neighborhood and see if businesses are booming, more are starting up or they are closing. You can gauge how safe you feel, how many bums are on the street, etc. These are quality of life issues, and of course they are subjective, but they matter, and these are the mayor's legacy. Most people when they decide to move or stay in a city, they are considering quality of life issues, not statistics of what was going on in the world or other cities in the nation.