Submitted by dc122186 t3_yezz9o in philadelphia
thestar1818 t1_iu0xj7l wrote
There are many legal gun owners who are supplying these felons and children with guns for a dollar. They need to be all oust, charged, and sent to prison.
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu11js4 wrote
Anyone who sells a firearm without doing an FFL transfer, which requires a background check, has committed a felony according to existing law and should be dealt with harshly.
Trionappa t1_iu11xze wrote
This quite literally isn’t true. Why are you speaking so confidently on stuff you obviously have no idea about?
McCooms t1_iu12wlu wrote
Handguns he is right, long rifles within PA to a PA resident when it’s a private transfer you don’t have to but it is recommended
Scumandvillany t1_iu2301f wrote
🙄 handguns require a background check in PA, full stop. It's ten years if you don't, possibly fed time
[deleted] t1_iu2fk2e wrote
[removed]
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu133mm wrote
It certainly is true, you have just listened to too many bullshitters feeding you incorrect information.
You’ll notice there are familial exceptions and long guns are excluded, but all handguns, short barrel shotguns and SBRs are subject and handguns account for nearly all of the crime committed.
From Giffords Foundation- “In Pennsylvania, an unlicensed seller may only sell a handgun or short-barreled rifle or shotgun to an unlicensed purchaser at the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff’s office.1 The licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or sheriff must comply with all of the dealer regulations set forth in the Pennsylvania Dealer Regulations section, including a background check on prospective purchaser.2 These requirements do not apply to transfers between spouses, parents and children, or grandparents and grandchildren.3 These requirements also do not generally apply to transfers of long guns.”
tofucaketl t1_iu1r8hv wrote
Giffords is wrong. Per the actual definition: > Long-gun—The term includes any weapon, that is not a handgun, designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, or the frame or receiver of the weapon.
So...any non-pistol. Shotguns are non-pistol. Look up the law yourself with "37 Pa. Code § 33.102" instead of relying on the website of a lobbying group.
Scumandvillany t1_iu2361h wrote
👍 sure. But there were only 500 murders committed by rifle in 2021, across the country. Like 98% of firearm murders are with handguns
tofucaketl t1_iu28xbg wrote
Okay. But that doesn't change anything. Giffords is still wrong.
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu29vn2 wrote
Shotguns with barrels under 18” are considered handguns in PA and are subject to the same regulation. I realize my original wording was misleading on that. I edited for clarity.
Dryheavemorning t1_iu13mta wrote
>and hunting rifles are excluded
Long guns are far more than just "hunting rifles."
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu16bk2 wrote
Mostly hunting rifles. Yeah you can sell an AR with a barrel 16+ and overall length 26+ but the reality is those are rarely used in criminal activity. Handguns are the vast majority followed by SBRs as far as gun murders go. Thats why the law is formulated as such.
Trionappa t1_iu19q1t wrote
So as I said. You are wrong anyone can sell a firearm, as long as it’s not a hand gun.
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu1atw5 wrote
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back for being only mostly wrong dude
Trionappa t1_iu1b8x2 wrote
Lmao. Brother you are an idiot. But that’s okay!
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu1bewe wrote
Bud, you’re a dunce
Trionappa t1_iu1bvqh wrote
You’re pretty upset because you were called out on being wrong. Some big boomer energy
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu1cfyt wrote
Not upset in the slightest, nor was I wrong if you read any of the info I responded with to add clarity, nor am I even close to a boomer. You need a nap or a snack or something.
Dryheavemorning t1_iu3zkep wrote
Long gun private seller exemption in action:
>It was revealed late Thursday that the gunman purchased the rifle from a private seller, according to a news release from St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department.
>The suspect attempted to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer in St. Charles, Missouri, on October 8, but an FBI background check "successfully blocked this sale," according to police.
>"As a result, the suspect sought out and bought the rifle used in the school shooting from a private seller, who legally purchased the weapon from a federally licensed dealer in December 2020," the release read. "There is no existing law which would have prevented the private sale between the original purchaser and the suspect in this case."
medici75 t1_iu22e9w wrote
only pistols require a background check through an FFL….this deputy was a scumbag through and through….he knows the structure for selling a pistol to anybody….he popped up on FBI radar because he was a one man crime wave with a badge…betcha he was doing the same with drugs…knew a cop who was always getting paid to babysit drug shipments…he would deliver kilos for a price…he got 75 yrs under rico…its been 18 years…only way he gets out is feet first
AnyOldNameNotTaken t1_iu232la wrote
Pistols, shotguns and short barrel rifles (under 16” barrel)
Only long rifles are exempt.
medici75 t1_iu23mc7 wrote
shotguns????!!!!!…didnt know shotguns were treated like pistols in pa
sadson215 t1_iu3i4sq wrote
From an FFL's perspective pistols must be sold to an adult 21 and older.
Rifles shotguns all need to go through background checks when purchased through an FFL.
Short barrel rifles suppressors and machine guns all go through the NFA which requires a 200 dollar tax stamp and a 3 month to a year plus background check through the ATF.
medici75 t1_iu51hb7 wrote
what if two family members or friends hunting buddies etc etc wanted to trade or sell a rifle or shotgun between them…they live next door to eachother…they have to go through an ffl to trade shotguns or rifles????
sadson215 t1_iu5x1or wrote
I'm pretty sure there's an exemption for family. Not sure about friends. Use to be you just had to transfer handguns through a sheriff or FFL, but that was years ago. Not sure what may have changed.
sadson215 t1_iu3hv0k wrote
No if you buy any firearm from an FFL you get a background check.
A short barrel rifle needs to go through the NFA
tofucaketl t1_iu1rgic wrote
If they are committing crimes then they aren't legal gun owners.
TheBSQ t1_iu27fag wrote
It’s a dumb tautology.
I can go legally buy a gun, then commit a crime and then I’m not longer a legal owner. But being “illegal” had no effect on my ability to get a gun because it happened after.
The point is, when that person originally bought the gun, did the seller know of any legal reason to not do that sale?
I can go into a store with the full intent of legally reselling it, and sure if you could read my mind you’d know that means it’s not a legal sale.
But since mind-reading is not possible, all you can go on is the known information. and per that known information, absolutely nothing would distinguish me from a legal purchaser.
So if the difference between a legal and illegal purchase depends on mind reading, it’s not really a difference in any practical sense. A difference without a distinction - that’s the saying, right?
And you know that.
And I’m sure you also know that many other countries have figured out that because mindreading isn’t real you need to add multiple other steps to dissuade that type of situation from occurring, including much more involved pre-purchase requirements, and much more thorough post purchase tracking and registration to make it so that it’s just too big of a pain in the ass to get a gun if you’re just going to turn around and sell it. And too likely that it’ll get traced back to you and some illegal sale you were involved with should the sketchy person you sold it to use it in a crime.
And you also know that while it’s kind of a pain in the ass, if you’re legal, and you have no intent on an illegal resale or to use it in a crime, other than it kinda being a pain, it doesn’t prevent legal ownership.
So the trade off is we can cut down on illegal ownership by making legal purchasing and owning a bit more annoying and require a bit more responsibility.
Or, we can keep legal purchasing super simple and accept that illegal ownership and increased gun violence are a cost of that ease and simplicity.
Argentum1078682 t1_iu2agyi wrote
>So the trade off is we can cut down on illegal ownership by making legal purchasing and owning a bit more annoying and require a bit more responsibility.
>Or, we can keep legal purchasing super simple and accept that illegal ownership and increased gun violence are a cost of that ease and simplicity.
This is a false dichotomy and relies on the premise that the ONLY way to reduce gun violence is to make things harder for legal owners.
Start by vigorously enforcing illegal possession cases before making things harder for the vast majority of gun owners who don't shoot people (99%+)
OrdinaryCorrect3161 t1_iu2vn64 wrote
You are aware that the guy they arrested is one of the people whose office you have to go through to transfer weapons, right? He’s a clear sign that the legal processes need review.
Edit: one of the offices. You can also go to a dealer but my point is, it wouldn’t surprise me if a deputy or two is helping illegal sales go through.
sadson215 t1_iu3ib9r wrote
The sheriff's office doesn't handle pics or nics so you're talking out of your ass. PICS is handled by the state police.
OrdinaryCorrect3161 t1_iu3uvwx wrote
Bro what? Dickhead, that’s the background checks. I’m talking if you wanted to buy my gun, we’d go to the sheriff’s office to do the transfer.
sadson215 t1_iu48946 wrote
No I'm paying you and I don't want to go to the sheriff's office I want to go to the FFL and if you have a problem with that I can get the same shitty gun you're peddling off gun broker nib and have it shipped to an FFL near me.. douche.
OrdinaryCorrect3161 t1_iu48n3f wrote
It’s section c. I’m just explaining how the law is written bro. There’s a way the sheriff’s office can be involved here. Get your panties out the bunch.
sadson215 t1_iu4bjcp wrote
You said you have too you can go to an FFL too
OrdinaryCorrect3161 t1_iu4fpze wrote
Okay, you’re right. I should have said “one of the places you have to go to”
tofucaketl t1_iu28qwu wrote
No, part of the gun buying process is filling out form 4473 (falsifying any information on the form is a federal felony). One of the questions (11a) asks if you're buying the firearm for yourself. By answering affirmatively to that question while intending to immediately sell/give the firearm to another person you're a felon. There's no mind reading going on. You've committed a crime before taking possession of the firearm. Obviously there are safeguards for the sellers (e.g. not being mind readers), but that does not change the fact that the buyer is a criminal.
AbsentEmpire t1_iu32wq7 wrote
OK but lying when answering that question will only ever be known and prosecuted as such after the fact. There is nothing inherently stopping you from lying on that question, and hindering the sale.
I mean hell the same shit happens for alcohol, it's illegal for a 21+ year old to buy booze with intent to sell it to minors but that shit happens all the time.
I own several guns, I'm 100% in favor of implementing a system that hinders straw sales for being as prevalent as they are.
jackxaniels t1_iu51zwj wrote
The ATF itself admits that it prosecutes 0.1% of cases where someone submits falsified information on form 4473. Clearly basing a law on a pinky promise isn’t effective
tofucaketl t1_iu66g5b wrote
Yeah but the ATF is garbage. A 4473 violation is one of those things that's not something they go after specifically, but tacked on as another crime when charging someone with more serious stuff. It's like a ticketmaster fee for court.
Unpopular_couscous t1_iu1074b wrote
No, no you don't understand. They're responsible gun owners. /s
Soxrox42 t1_iu11pzl wrote
Not if they’re selling guns illegally to minors and felons lol
Fat_Head_Carl t1_iu2wjm5 wrote
> There are many legal gun owners who are supplying these felons and children with guns for a dollar.
They're called criminals, not legal gun owners
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