Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ltahaney t1_j0zfk7m wrote

Reply to comment by LFKhael in $56M contract approved to design proposed Camden-Gloucester light rail line by Dryheavemorning

Serious question: have you ever ridden the river line? It primarily serves high density, pre-war devolpements, most of which are also low income. It Serves these communities extremely well too. Maybe encouraging hoards of new TOD is a good idea too, but this comment seems to suggest you think the communities which currently benefit are somehow not enough.

Not to pull a classic whataboutism, but do you think that the regional rail system is any better? Most of the lines which serve outside the city itself arent very built up (or at least built up to a similar degree as the riverline). Seems the distinction is that riverline communities are primarily low income, whereas regional rail serves higher income areas where it's not as built up.

21

RoughRhinos t1_j0zg760 wrote

I'd say that regional rail is the same or even worse. Especially Patco serving rich neighborhoods with hundreds of parking spots. It's not about wealth but a lack of development surrounding all commuter rail. Media at least is building some mixed use development and incorporates the stations into the downtown fabric. This also goes for stations in Philly as well.

7

Proper-Code7794 t1_j0zq892 wrote

My God man a parking lot is for park and ride so there's less commuters driving in the Philadelphia what do you want exactly do you want parking lots or more cars in Philadelphia and don't say everyone should just take the train because where are they going to get to the train if they don't live next to the train?? I guess your responses everyone should live in a tower.

−3

zac987 t1_j0zt95n wrote

Parking garages with first floor retail beat surface lots EVERY time. There is little retail vacancy in the Haddons, so there's demand.

9

Proper-Code7794 t1_j10q3su wrote

You know what doesn't cost as much as a giant parking garage, a parking lot.

−2

zpepsin t1_j122fwb wrote

I don't know what else to say other than you're making it blatantly obvious that you know very little about urban planning. Not trying to be mean.

5

Proper-Code7794 t1_j13a6kp wrote

Not only do I know urban planning I used to work for SEPTA building train stations and not actually doing the labor I mean doing the paperwork so I know exactly how much things cost and how much it costs to build a garage over just a parking lot. It's actually pretty scary that people watch YouTube videos from guys that never even went to school for this and now think that their urban planning experts. Like not just bikes that guy's a hack as is Inga saffron. Saying you hate cars and everything needs to be high density doesn't make you an urban planner

−2

zpepsin t1_j1428l0 wrote

So then please inform me, how much taxes does a surface level parking lot bring in as compared to a garage with retail or housing above it?

1

LFKhael t1_j0zg6k1 wrote

>Serious question: have you ever ridden the river line?

For fucking years. It has two grocery stores. Trying to find things it actually connects to outside of Trenton and Camden is an exercise in frustration.

0

ltahaney t1_j0zhb56 wrote

I completely agree with you there. I think the issue is way more than the riverline, though.

I lived in Bristol borough. Walked everywhere in town and could do almost anything I needed to day-to-day, except grocery shopping. There was one, which is quite bad, especially with regards to fresh produce/healthy food. And it price gouged like crazy. A massive barrier to bristol's ability to be a good car place to live totally car free.

More broadly, the United States has a specific major shortcoming regarding grocery stores. Domination of the big box style grocery store has completely strangled any human-not-car scale grocery stores compatitiveness. Even in the city grocery stores often still have massive setbacks and surface parking. There are a huge numbers of complex reasons for this, not the least of which is the market. You can't just greenfield a grocery store which inconveniences car drivers when they can go 5minutes down the road to a "better" one. So populate the area first with dense housing, but then there is no grocery store...etc etc.

It goes way deeper than the riverline, and it's extremely hard to find a compelling alternative stateside.

8

LFKhael t1_j0zigly wrote

>I think the issue is way more than the riverline, though.

My frustration about the lack of development is aimed at the people, not the government. NJT did their part to build it...and the people just aren't there for it despite how good it could be. It's why I'm not getting my hopes up for the Camden-Gloucester line.

1

Proper-Code7794 t1_j0zq2hm wrote

No people like this just think everything should end up looking like New York because they didn't grow up in an apartment building and probably don't have children and probably grew up with a front yard and don't know how bad it is to have to share a yard with 100 people as a kid

−3