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donttouchthirdrail t1_j6e5luj wrote

Reply to comment by ThreePointsPhilly in 50% of ALL of SEPTA's problems can be solved overnight by installing barriers that prevent gate hopping on Broad and MFL lines by scatterbrainedpast

Both of my grandparents live in New York City and are completely dependent on the subway and buses for travel. The MTA is already reducing service on the lines they live on due to budget issues, impart due to a massive increase in fare evasion. Fare dodging has real material effects on people’s lives. Making Septa free would completely annihilate their budget and mostly act as a massive subsidy for wealthy 9-5 commuters in the suburbs. Harrisburg has little interest in supporting septa and it has historically been one of the most underfunded transit agencies in the country, with a massive backlog of repairs and worthwhile expansions that have been on the back burner since the 60s. Any dollar you can get from Harrisburg should be dumped into increasing service before making fares free.

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ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6e7r3p wrote

I’m sorry for your grandparents, truly.

I don’t know the answer but free transit pilot programs in other cities seem to be working. We should try them here. We should try to make the system work better for people and that shouldn’t always be enforcement. If free transit means the buses and trains run on time because boarding and deboarding is more efficient, and it’s safer for drivers and passengers because there’s no issues with people not paying, I think we should explore that. If free transit means more people use the system because it’s now convenient and less expensive than driving, I think we should explore that.

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donttouchthirdrail t1_j6ei6az wrote

Free transit service works in cities where the RR is in the single digits, as is the modal share. KCATA is not useful service, it’s welfare for the destitute, who are the only people would take a bus that comes every two hours, because they have no choice otherwise. SEPTA is currently making ~280 million a year from fare revenue, and need to be going after riders who choose to use it because it’s convenient.

There’s a mental exercise I like to do that helps me illustrate this point. It’s called years of free transit instead of “X”, where x is the thing you want to build.

Would you rather have 4 years of free transit, or a fully ADA accessible regional rail with high level platforms.

Would you rather have 4 years of free transit, or a fully ADA accessible trolley system with new low platform cars, fully replacing the Kawasaki LRVa from the 80s.

Would you rather have 7 years of free transit, or an extension of the Broad street line up Roosevelt boulevard, serving roughly an extra 100k people per day

4 years of free transit, or new rail cars on el or the subway

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ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6eowya wrote

All fair points. These are all fair and legit questions and we should all think about them. I’ll present you with this thought experiment.

Your out-of-town friend says he’s coming to Philly for a week - part business and part pleasure. So his employer is paying for some of his meals and some of his stay, but not all. So his share…how is he paying for it? That’s easy and you don’t bat an eye - cash or card. Basically anywhere you go (Dirty Franks aside) will take a card, and everywhere will take cash.

But now, try to explain to him how he can use a bus, a train or a subway. It’s complicated! Sure the SEPTA key is fairly easy, but it’s still a barrier to using the system. How much should he load onto the card? Why can’t he just use cash in a train? Or can you but only the exact fare? It’s a bit confusing if you’re an out of towner to use - heck, it might be confusing if you’re in Philly and only use SEPTA once or twice a year.

Now reverse the situation. You go visit your friend in another city. Do you have any idea how you’re supposed to pay for transit in this city? Do they take cards? Do they take Apple Pay? Do you need a SEPTA Key equivalent? Can you pay on the train/subway/bus?

Why is public transit one of the few services that’s not always intuitive how to pay for it? Again, any hotel and (most) restaurants will take a credit card. You can go to a restaurant in another city and 99 out of 100 times you can pay with a credit card. And any Uber you take is tied a card. But transit? Well, it’s a more complicated and no two cities are exactly alike.

Fares are a barrier in more ways than just financial. The complexity of fares is a barrier to ridership.

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