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StrayMoggie t1_ivd06v1 wrote

Reply to comment by theartificialkid in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3

Suffering is a tricky one to know where the lines are drawn. Being tough on someone so that they can learn and adapt can sometimes be thought of causing suffering. Debate is where we are able to make choices. But those debates at also timely and need to be reviewed from time to time.

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theartificialkid t1_ivd27rz wrote

I think we are at cross purposes.

If an alien says “making others suffer, just for its own sake, is morally good” there is no scientific disproof of that. I’m not saying “maybe suffering can lead to better things”, I’m saying the idea that causing unalloyed suffering for no reason is “bad” is at best an axiom not amenable to proof.

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