TheEarlOfCamden t1_iz93sni wrote
Reply to comment by kfpswf in Philosopher José Antonio Marina: 'The fact that happiness has become fashionable is catastrophic' by FDuquesne
I guess I am struggling to see on what basis one would do anything (except perhaps the immediately gratifying) if one had no desires about future states of the world. Unlike Arjuna I can’t just ask a god what I should do!
angryherbalist t1_iz958tg wrote
its about attaching to an outcome, which causes suffering both if the outcome doesnt happen, or a delusion of control if it does.
it’s setting goals, having intentions, making choices, and instead of saying ‘i want this to happen’ you say ‘let’s see what happens’.
it’s curiosity, which ends in acceptance. acceptance that all of this shit is really random.
if you’ve ever done everything right and ‘failed’ then you can understand a bit easier.
TheEarlOfCamden t1_iz96681 wrote
What is a goal if not a desired outcome?
Is the idea that you say ‘I am working towards x, but I am indifferent as to whether x happens.’?
demo01134 t1_iz9aa2f wrote
I think the conflict causing the confusion here is that stoicism is meant to correct for the emotional mind, and acknowledges that humans are flawed and require over correcting. Stoicism doesn’t say that feelings are bad, but rather are something we can not directly control, and therefore we shouldn’t let them be involved in the rational thoughts of our day to day. A better way of phrasing your quotes is “I would personally prefer x to happen, but I know emotion prefers that outcome over logic, so instead I will pursue y, and will accept whatever outcome happens as fact”.
angryherbalist t1_iz99uwq wrote
acceptance.
attachment is the lack of acceptance.
you set goals, visions, dreams.
you identify all the things that could make that true.
you set out to accomplish all of those things.
and whatever happens, happens.
you can be disappointed, but your pain will be temporary. suffering lasts for as long as we remain attached to an outcome, and often grows in intensity
here’s a simplification:
‘i want my parents to live to their 80s’
your dad dies at 50.
it is painful.
you then spend the rest of your days wishing he were still alive, and that he made it to 80.
from 30-50, you spend your time attached to the idea that you want him to live until 80. worry, anxiety is the natural thing.
a dramatic example of our illusion of control.
while true we have more control in our lives than if/when someone dies, it’s not by much.
patientpedestrian t1_iza9ilg wrote
Attach your passions to the journey, not the destination. Do your best according to your current understanding of things, but know that your current understanding is incomplete and delight in the “surprises” of failure that allow you to improve that understanding.
Xabikur t1_izaidyv wrote
Others have said it really well, but what it boils down to, in every day parlance, is "hope for the best, prepare for the worst".
So certainly work towards your goals, but be prepared to find you don't reach them (incidentally, being resilient like this makes it more likely to reach your goals).
brownshoez t1_iz9dnwu wrote
You still set goals and try to achieve them (learn the piano for example). But if the outcome isn't what you set out for (you don't play Carnegie Hall) you don't lament it, but appreciate that you learned piano. Then set a new goal.
kfpswf t1_iz9562t wrote
>I guess I am struggling to see on what basis one would do anything (except perhaps the immediately gratifying) if one had no desires about future states of the world.
It's not that you can't work towards an aim, but just detach yourself from the expectation of outcomes. It's ok to want to become rich, so that you can help your near and dear ones, and work hard towards it. But always be aware that the outcome of your effort need not be plentiful always.
>Unlike Arjuna I can’t just ask a god what I should do!
You can read the Bhagvad Gita.
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