Submitted by GuitarsRgreat t3_zqw0u7 in philosophy
Comments
Murfdigidy t1_j112nes wrote
Proof no one reads the article just the title
Gritty76 t1_j11scqo wrote
It’s a hit piece towards (young) people who, according to him, have insufficiently considered the complexity and nuance of Nietzsche. This, based on the fact a generation of people post buzzwords and catchphrases to social media - itself inherently a place where catchphrases and buzzwords are the expected levels of discourse - and concluding that the absence of full throated discourse proves that an adequate understanding has not been achieved. The conclusion doesn’t even come close to answering the questions outlined in the premise.
We’re not all Nietzsche experts. And his writing does leave a lot of room for interpretation. So why is the author discounting the valid opinions (“Oh my god, Nietzsche is like, my favorite philosopher.”) of people based on the fact that they’re reading, whether elementary or advanced, may be different than yours?
Fishermans_Worf t1_j1167wa wrote
I thought it was quite well written. The first half seemed annoyingly shallow—but once it got to the meat that was the point. Philosophy requires context.
VersaceEauFraiche t1_j10b0l6 wrote
A true Nietzschean would be obliged to overcome Nietzsche himself. I haven't read all of his works, but I am certain that Nietzsche has made this same remark.
GuitarsRgreat OP t1_j10f04g wrote
That's right on the money. It's unfortunate that so many people today seem to be drawn to Nietzsche's work without fully comprehending the depth and nuance of his ideas. Rather than cherry-picking and adapting Nietzsche's ideas to suit our own purposes, we should engage with his philosophy in its entirety. To fully understand Nietzsche's ideas, we must go beyond his own philosophy, just as he encouraged us to do.
ConfusedObserver0 t1_j119tow wrote
Got a link to a single read that does that? Not everyone is a PHD on the guy or has the time to read all of his work, but I get your point…
The more I learn about him the more I see how he can be taken out of context (partisan sometimes). Even he was worried with how his ideas would land.
Nietzsche and the Nazi’s was an interesting look into the ideas of his were the formative inspiration of the 3rd Reich and many intellectuals of the time; whether the actual “death of an artist” would had matter or not, who knows. So times ideas take on a life of their own outside the hands of their maker.
VersaceEauFraiche t1_j13ps2b wrote
Not that I have a single citation on hand but, Nietzsche is all about the creation of new values. The Overman is so, not because he has monstrous strength, but because he is the creator of his own values. He bounds over the sclerotic values contemporary to himself that seek to chain him. It sounds paradoxical, but in order to fully imbibe Nietzsche's philosophy on vitality, value creation, Overman, etc, you will eventually come to the point of having to overcome Nietzsche as well. Its been about 140 years since his writings and many philosophers have built upon, expanded, written in reference/contrast to Nietzsche. The most Nietzschean thing to do is to break free from the crystallized form that the discourse has taken.
ConfusedObserver0 t1_j168hif wrote
I like it… I’ve dabbled just a touch and want to reread Zarathustra and get to beyond good and evil.
I won’t go on too long explanatory excursion here but I will say I think that this is what many of us are doing, or are at least attempting to do in our own right.
The idea that adhering to any deontology such as Christ cult comes with the implicit exception to free will (let’s not get bogged down in a physics lesson in free will - just say agency and volition). By following someone else’s code, esp dogmatically, you sort of diminish your own potentials and possibilities in exploring and expanding yourself, the world around and the people you interact with. Sure it’s “safe” but nothing worth doing is safe. And people conservative minded (afraid of change) old farts will shriek at the redefining and side effect at every corner.
I believe modern society, esp in the day and age of social media, grants us even further reach to push back and explore these tensions, to refine our views. Because you don’t know what you think until you run them on trial in the real. Without at least writing them down, you don’t even know what you think yourself most often.
Sure we haven’t came up with objectivity (since it doesn’t exist), but we relativistically refine our iterations as we progress for fitnesss. Anyone familiar with David Deutsche’s concepts form “the beginning of infinity” would catch my drift.
And it’s not perfect and we have the potential for steps back at any moment. But the Uber mench must be brave enough and strong enough to burden truths not meant for every shoulder to bear.
On the fear of Nihilism… I see more of a fear of existential nihilism than a disrespect for life. If condition decrease or are bleak for the future, this is when people react without conditions for a future they don’t see existing or being very dark. So imho Nitsche got this wrong, as we supplement our need for spirituality and community elsewhere
BillyTheKid_69420 t1_j1197g7 wrote
Yes - Nietzsche calls out what the masses were doing at his time. He generally states it's a bad way to live, but masses today just here that what they're doing was called out by a philosopher.
rentonlives t1_j10jg42 wrote
My first comment was removed for being an opinion. Which is comical as the article is also merely opinion. So I’ll expound upon it.
This is a superficial review of a common gripe of philosophy enthusiasts and second year university students. The complaint is that people like themselves posses a deeper understanding of the text of Nietzche than the casual reader who memeifies the complex psycho-philosophical writings for tshirts and well, memes. Their memification or dumbing down of a complex idea is offensive to the author.
There is no deep textual review of Nietzsche there is no factual review of student or public discourse regarding Nietzsche. There is no review, comment, quote from contemporary scholars on the misunderstandings the author is griping about. Each paragraph merely doubling down on the previous reciting the dilemma of the watering down of Nietzsche’s works.
So this is an opinion piece masquerading as a philosophy article.
rrustico t1_j10uzml wrote
I agree with this, and OP seems to be passive agressive and overly defendive instead of considering he should have included more examples. There is a mention about Nietzsche critizing all systems, which is something that anyone can do, but no other examples of why the philosopher can be misinterpreted, and that is honestly repeated too much in the article but without substance to back it up. The amount of knowledge that OP has is irrelevant, I just know that this article adds close to nothing to the conversation he himself started, and the part about 'cool' and 'edgy' is really off putting in any serious context.
hippobiscuit t1_j11wk0x wrote
I have a suspicion that an AI might have written this article. it's platitudes followed by platitudes in a formulaic structure.
iiioiia t1_j15d1im wrote
> My first comment was removed for being an opinion. Which is comical as the article is also merely opinion.
Two wrong do make a right?
> So this is an opinion piece masquerading as a philosophy article.
Is this another opinion disguised as a fact?
rentonlives t1_j15j4aa wrote
These are fascinating questions.
iiioiia t1_j15jua8 wrote
Well that's an anomalous reaction!
GuitarsRgreat OP t1_j10nblf wrote
Thanks for your insightful and respectful comment on my article. I'm sorry that my shallow, superficial perspective on Nietzsche didn't meet your expectations as a philosophy expert. How silly of me to think that my own thoughts and experiences as a casual reader of Nietzsche's work could be worth sharing. I'll be sure to consult with contemporary scholars and provide in-depth textual analysis in my next piece to better appease the gods of philosophical discourse.
Oh, and by the way, in case you were wondering, your original comment was: "Basically a blog about not liking young people listening to your favorite band." It was removed under the rule of "Be Respectful" because it consisted of personal attacks and did not contribute to the discussion. But please, continue to share your wisdom and condescension with the rest of us lesser mortals. We can always use a good dose of elitism to remind us of our intellectual inferiority.
rentonlives t1_j10p422 wrote
> But it's hard not to roll my eyes at the way he has been co-opted and overhyped by a certain subset of young people who seem to think that discovering Nietzsche makes them deep, edgy, and uniquely intelligent.
They like my band. I found them first. How could they not possible understand everything I know which is much deeper.
I also like how you bring up the potential dangers of missing the point of his work but never actually address them or illustrate actually one single danger of oversimplifying his work.
Nice blog.
Silver_Tower_4676 t1_j121edd wrote
Ironically he has become the prophet of the masses in many ways for people who see him almost as a spiritual guide rather than a philosopher. For many he is one of the first philosophers to read due to his popularity while they aren't yet familiarised with philosophical ideas and the history of previous thought systems to help one better understand his ideas in the context of his time. Your remark about exploring philosophy in its variety to avoid remaining stuck at this level is accurate since many seem reluctant in discovering new ideas once they find what they perceive as an all encompassing narrative with explanatory power in a system of thought. Well written article.
[deleted] t1_j107k7s wrote
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BernardJOrtcutt t1_j10ba3m wrote
Your comment was removed for violating the following rule:
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newyne t1_j10yyza wrote
Great article! I think Nietzsche is overrated, but through no fault of his own. It's this almost worshipful attitude some people have toward him (I even saw someone refer to him once as "the great prophet Nietzsche"), and it's like... That kind of person tends to think that he has all the answers that will work for everyone and anyone; if they don't, you're just not "trying hard enough" (which, having grown up fundamentalist Christian, sounds familiar!). I think often those are the people who don't really get his work, too. Because I mean... Haven't they just replaced God with Nietzsche? Kinda undercuts what he was saying, actually. That is, turns out what happens is that people will just invent new gods. Although of course not everyone does that.
geockabez t1_j11i248 wrote
If I had a nickel for every time someone wrote, "That's not what Nietzsche meant" I'd be a billionaire.
Assassin_Coke t1_j10gg5v wrote
Its just vain people being vain it doesn't matter if they dont understand what nietzsche meant, its all about how others will think of them.
sZYphYn t1_j12v5uw wrote
The fact that the man is a gnostic saint should be enough for anyone to know what is on the surface isn’t necessarily what is being said, reading Nietzsche through an “occult” lens frames the concepts of his work in a drastically different light than reading it like contemporary philosophy.
DryEyes4096 t1_j1hxp7s wrote
I believe that Nietzsche was incredibly sarcastic. He, not the reader, knew what the uebermensch was, which he wouldn't have brought into the world if he hadn't taken atheism as a "matter of course" (or did he?)...one can feel a bit...undone...by his ideas if you embrace them, can't you? Like can't you just feel the wisdom draining from your mind one sentence at a time and filled with some nameless grand sense of megalomania, even as every virtue and goodness that could elevate you disappears into some abyss? Don't you feel a bit distracted by your own unrealistic desires? Maybe enthralled by things that push you aside from mainstream social life, as if one were simply removed from others' lives altogether? Maybe even a bit "dead"?
Do you really want to find meaning in Nietzsche or do you want to create your own meaning to life? What are you searching for? It's your mind that writes the meaning, not Nietzsche's... unless you believe him like he's some kind of "prophet", "preacher", or even "Antichrist", of course. I believe that Nietzsche said in Ecce Homo that if you were to meet his uebermensch, you would not recognize him or probably think that he was "...a devil!" Really now?
Nietzsche encouraged us to almost blithely create a mythos as "a lie, to give life meaning". He also asked why we seek truth instead of untruth. He also spoke in constant double-entendres in the manner of Heraclitus, so that anyone can interpret him in many different manners, as per their choice.
People think he destroyed metaphysics, but I think he simply concealed it from enough people that I don't need to worry about them questioning the effect of the meaning I give life on people, who seem so wrapped up in their own beliefs not to notice...
timbgray t1_j10v7xb wrote
I recall another thread where a bunch from the no AI community, were planning to flood social media with Mickey Mouse AI generated stuff to precipitate some kind of legal storm that would clarify the IP issues.
[deleted] t1_j11vw5u wrote
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[deleted] t1_j14xclh wrote
Every time you log into social media or speak to a younger person Nietzsche comes up? Who the fuck do you talk to lmao? The only example you give is a post from r/existentialism so someone on a philosophy subreddit talks about philosophy, incredible…. Honestly this mostly just seems like you’re mad that other people like a thing you like so you’re lashing out with no substance. Very strange blog that says very little.
Heidegger1236 t1_j289y5m wrote
When I was young I read Nietzsche extensivly, however, for some reason later on, I never found him to be all that interesting. I like Schopenhauer more.
[deleted] t1_j12s8tf wrote
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BernardJOrtcutt t1_j142fn1 wrote
Your comment was removed for violating the following rule:
>Argue your Position
>Opinions are not valuable here, arguments are! Comments that solely express musings, opinions, beliefs, or assertions without argument may be removed.
Repeated or serious violations of the subreddit rules will result in a ban.
This is a shared account that is only used for notifications. Please do not reply, as your message will go unread.
tenthsandman t1_j17pm9s wrote
I've noticed in some media, Nietzsche is almost treated like gospel. It's strange and infuriating to hear people talk about Christianity as if it were a long dead religion that nobody believes in anymore.
GlupostIDosada t1_j10eq8i wrote
Finally! It had to be told. It is a broader issue...not only with FN...with informatic age we trimmed broader ideas to short info. I cant find valid reason in doing so, but I believe it has something to do with feeding pigs with pearls. Irony of it all is that FN himself would condemn those people that follow him memealike.
Unlimitles t1_j108sn4 wrote
SMH….propaganda against Nietzsche
GuitarsRgreat OP t1_j10b28d wrote
Wow, really? Propaganda against Nietzsche? I'm sorry, I must have missed that part where I was spreading false information and trying to manipulate the reader's beliefs. My bad. I must have just completely overlooked the fact that I clearly stated my deep respect for Nietzsche and his contributions to philosophy, and simply shared my own observations about how his ideas are often oversimplified and distorted by those who don't fully understand them. But hey, if you think my article is just propaganda against Nietzsche, then I guess you must have a deeper and more enlightened understanding of his philosophy than I do. Keep on rockin' in the free world, my friend.
noctisfromtheabyss t1_j10h7z4 wrote
Boy, this escalated quickly...
Noobperson21 t1_j12r3eh wrote
Bro, maybe they were stating that the very quotes and memes you argued against are propaganda. This is overly defencive
Franksenbeanz t1_j109l6z wrote
From the headline it seems like it's a hit piece towards Nietzsche, but it's really not.