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tokmer t1_j1yrf5b wrote

Reply to comment by chrismacphee in An Argument in Favour of Unpredictable, Hard Determinism by CryptoTrader1024

See but religious people like the idea of free will (that way rewards and punishments can make sense) so they say hod said we have free will so we do.

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token-black-dude t1_j1yt9ur wrote

Classical Islamic theology is pretty clear on the position that everything has already been determined by Allah. Obviously that means that he's unfair by human standards, but they seem chill about that.

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YuGiOhippie t1_j1ywl83 wrote

They don’t seem that chill about it actually.

God driven determinism is the perfect recipe for justifying all kind of atrocities

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iiioiia t1_j204786 wrote

Science seems better at some though, like climate change - I challenge you to describe a plausible scenario where religion could pull that one off on its own.

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YuGiOhippie t1_j208ueu wrote

Pull what of?

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iiioiia t1_j20amcs wrote

Destroy the ecosystem of the planet.

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YuGiOhippie t1_j20rpxy wrote

I don’t get what you are trying to prove

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iiioiia t1_j20y4o6 wrote

I'm saying I don't believe the output of religion could destroy the ecosystem of Planet Earth with the same efficiency that the output of science is now doing.

Do you believe that religion is capable of it, and if so could you explain how?

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YuGiOhippie t1_j214jes wrote

I’d argue this is more the result of capitalism Not science

Capitalism is a kind of religion too

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iiioiia t1_j215hbh wrote

> I’d argue this is more the result of capitalism Not science

I can agree with that, can you agree that:

  • science is a pre-requisite to make it happen?

  • the scientific community is not well known for saying (because they do not say it) that their work is producing harm because much of their work is conducted under capitalism?

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YuGiOhippie t1_j215xv5 wrote

Science is not a pre-requisite to capitalism.

All work is in the capitalist system right now science included, but that’s not a fault of science.

Science is as often stifled by capitalism as it is financed

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iiioiia t1_j21hxta wrote

>>> I’d argue this is more the result of capitalism Not science

>> I can agree with that, can you agree that: science is a pre-requisite to make it happen?

> Science is not a pre-requisite to capitalism.

Oh my.

> All work is in the capitalist system right now science included, but that’s not a fault of science.

Are harmful things that science contributed to the fault of science?

If capitalism can be guilty of things, why can science not be guilty of things?

> Science is as often stifled by capitalism as it is financed

Perhaps (you're welcome to show your work), but this is orthogonal to whether science causes harm.

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YuGiOhippie t1_j21lkb5 wrote

Science is a method.

Capitalism is a system.

Any method used within a system is tinted by it.

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CryptoTrader1024 OP t1_j1z6wsm wrote

I think some Calvinists also believe that everything is already determined by God. That is, who goes to heaven or hell is already set.

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foxrun89 t1_j1zquvi wrote

Doesn’t the Bible say something about the book of life and death? I think they’ve already been written. Therefore, your path has been chosen for you.

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CryptoTrader1024 OP t1_j1zrdn8 wrote

well, I think most christians do not believe this. most of christianity leans pretty heavily on free will.

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foxrun89 t1_j1zri1j wrote

I’ll have to look it up when I get home.

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