Bl4nkface t1_j372aek wrote on January 6, 2023 at 2:19 PM

Reply to comment by Brandyforandy in The Persistent Problem of Consciousness: an astronaut's epiphany by simsquatched

For the universe to want anything, it would need to be conscious as a whole. You can't say that a whole wants something just because there are smaller parts of it who have desires. That's like saying the world wants to buy iPhones just because there are humans in the world who want to buy iPhone. It's an attribution error.

Brandyforandy t1_j374lt6 wrote on January 6, 2023 at 2:36 PM

What if there are other consciousnesses in other parts of the universe? We might be just a perspective. You can't deny that we are part of the universe and that we are conscious. Our brains are said to be the only part of the human which is conscious, but we don't say that the brain is an entity of it's own. Our brain would not be able to survive without our bodies and we would not be able to survive without the universe. Because there isn't really a distinction between them.

I believe that saying we are a separate entity from the universe is incredibly arrogant and ooze of self-importance. It's like saying animals don't have consciousness when every indication point to that they do. We are just a small speck in this wide, wide cosmos. An unique speck, but a speck non-the less.

Bl4nkface t1_j377yuc wrote on January 6, 2023 at 2:59 PM

I'm not saying we are separate from the universe. I'm saying that it's not logically correct to infer something about the universe based on the characteristics of parts of the universe (for example, living beings).

Another analogy: Even though you and me are part of Reddit and we both are interested in philosophy, you can't infer that Reddit itself is interested in philosophy.

Brandyforandy t1_j37wphu wrote on January 6, 2023 at 5:32 PM

Why do you not think consciousness, and life is the part of the universe looking back at itself?

Osafune t1_j387zid wrote on January 6, 2023 at 6:39 PM

Different person here but I think "part of" is the key phrase here. Is life part of the universe "looking back at itself?" Well, yes it is. But life is only part of the universe. The universe itself as a whole is not conscious and "looking back at itself." Just like Reddit as a whole is not necessarily interested in philosophy just because some individual members are.

Brandyforandy t1_j38vjr6 wrote on January 6, 2023 at 9:03 PM

I don't think it was ever said the universe as a whole is conscious, only that we represent the consciousness of the universe.

Osafune t1_j38ynkr wrote on January 6, 2023 at 9:22 PM

What you were saying ("the universe itself want us to explore it", "the consciousness of the universe") was implying otherwise to me.

I mean, I would only consider those statements I quoted to be true in a poetic or metaphorical way.

Brandyforandy t1_j39ef0h wrote on January 6, 2023 at 11:04 PM

'The universe itself want us to explore it' was meant in a poetic and exploratory way. In a more factual way I would say 'We are the universe exploring itself, therefore the universe want to explore itself, because we are part of the universe' If that were not true we would not have the urge of curiosity and exploration, novelty. I am fully aware that we developed this through evolution, and i argue that it is not we as a species who have evolved, but the universe who evolved into a more advanced phase.