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tgifmondays t1_j3aod89 wrote

Reply to comment by hononononoh in Our ability to resist temptation depends on how fragmented one's mind is | On the inconsistencies in one’s mental setup by IAI_Admin

I didn’t realize people found 12 step programs “despicable” I understand they’re not for everyone but they have literally saved my life and the lives of people I love.

I think the early AA stuff unintentionally hit on a lot of what is only now being understood.

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hononononoh t1_j3bto2m wrote

Maybe it’s just the subs I subscribe to, but I can barely allude to the Twelve Step programs without starting a circlejerk about how appalling ineffective, culty, and offensive to folks’ atheist sensibilities all these programs are. I mean yeah, they’re not for everyone. Under no circumstances should anyone be mandated or court-ordered to attend one. But there are people who owe their successful recovery to them, for some people they are effective, and there’s not a lot to lose by giving them a try.

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tgifmondays t1_j3dbj97 wrote

Yeah. I have been a lifelong atheist and in my opinion anyone unwilling to consider a program because of that is more or less looking for an excuse. This book was written a long time ago and even then the language is “I higher power of YOUR understanding” as well as there being a chapter for agnostics. It’s actually one of the most important chapters.

But I suppose it all depends on the groups in your area. The meetings I attend are very open to all ideas and there are specific atheist meetings if you prefer

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hononononoh t1_j3du8jp wrote

And I’m exactly the opposite — a lifelong theist, who is skeptical that the Twelve Step programs should be the gold standard, let alone the be-all-end-all, of addiction recovery. And nevertheless, you and I more or less agree on this matter, lol. Way too much black-and-white thinking and bandwagon side-taking these days, and it’s frankly refreshing to find people and spaces where that’s not the case. All the best to you this new year, dude. ❤️

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tgifmondays t1_j3emb32 wrote

All the best to you as well. I absolutely agree it should not be considered the end all be all. It’s a part of my recovery and not the entirety of it. There are always going to be book thumpers that scoff at others, they’re not helpful

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kenmorechalfant t1_j3cefx7 wrote

As the other reply said, as an atheist, I find the "higher power" part of it to be an insult to my intelligence. But I can just ignore that and I think the rest of the program is good.

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tgifmondays t1_j3db61i wrote

Yeah I mean I think it was understood that a literal Christian god would be a turn off which is why there’s a chapter specifically for agnostics. I can get down with “I higher power of your understanding”. It just does not bother me personally in that language

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