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TheAxiomOfTruth t1_j3hxzz3 wrote

Hot take: Our focus on maximising happiness (or some analog to it) is the wrong approach. Minimizing unhappiness is more pragmatic. The reason being unhappiness is quite easily measured or at least the conditions which might cause it are. For example hunger, disease and poverty. And is more easily directly treated: food, medicine and money.

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fingin t1_j3immki wrote

I feel like it's the same issue, just using different words. For example, the concept of suffering extends well beyond things like physical and economic needs. It's like happiness in how difficult it is to actually assess it as its own quality. But I do see the value in minimizing these associated things rather than trying to maximize things like "life satisfaction rates"!

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TheAxiomOfTruth t1_j3isfcl wrote

Good point. You can have food, money and good health and still be unhappy! However I stand by my point that on average measuring unhappiness is much easier. And, in general what makes us unhappy is much more universal. For example, going to a Taylor swift concert might make some people (including me) pretty happy, but others would be indifferent. But being starving universally makes people unhappy.

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fingin t1_j3itqrr wrote

Yeah I think it's better to focus on minimizing unwanted outcomes, is in line with some of the more compelling versions of Utilitarianism

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Kreugs t1_j3kez2y wrote

I think what you are expressing is minimizing suffering as opposed to unhappiness.

Unhappiness like happiness can be very subjective, as the other commenter rightly suggested.

The most elemental types of suffering you listed are much more universal. If we were able to free people from physical and temporal suffering, hopefully more people would be well and functional, and have a shot at something like actual happiness or fulfillment.

I wonder if societies can be relied upon to pursue intellectual development if they aren't fighting against need and suffering, or if more people would accept some degree of comfort or contentment and remain apathetic?

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SirReal14 t1_j3k083f wrote

Unhappiness, or at least dissatisfaction, can be very important for growth and development. Maximizing happiness would be going to the gym and living a long healthy life, minimizing unhappiness would be avoiding the discomfort of the gym and enjoying daily gluttony.

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ServantOfBeing t1_j3kdv2w wrote

So tackle things in which unhappiness exists. To reach the more abstract happiness.

I like that.

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jack1509 t1_j3mtjzk wrote

I am not sure how well this approach works. I currently live in India and I notice that a lot of emotionally suffering and depressed folks are those that have a comfortable, financially well off setup (perhaps too well off). On the other hand, I also get to interact with labourers and poor people. Somehow most of those folks seem quite content and peaceful with their life (as long as they are able manage day to day survival). So I don't think physical or material suffering equate mental suffering although they may be a driver. Perhaps the poor don't live as complicated a life as the rich folks and perhaps they don't have the luxury or patience to go through existential crisis like the rich folks.

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SvetlanaButosky t1_j3kjg9t wrote

I think we should focus on tech, as in transhumanism or transanimalism, because no matter how much we try to philosophize about it, the body and mind will react to pain and suffering in a negative way, unless we tech up and make our body and mind resilient, just like a robot cant feel pain and can easily repair or replace damaged parts.

We could at least get rid of the physical aspect of pain and suffering, our minds could greatly improve with AI integration too (brain chips), making it far better at processing stimuli than what nature could do.

Become as strong and as durable as machines but as smart and wise as humans.

Johnny Depp Transcendence.

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Zanderax t1_j3jx5ys wrote

Unhappiness is a product in our modern consumer culture. How can they sell you something to make you happy unless you are unhappy? They manufacture unhappiness through advertisement and other manipulative practices like limited time offers to create FOMO.

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