Hypersensation t1_j3xwt8a wrote
Reply to comment by PepsiMoondog in Philosophy has never been the detached pursuit of truth. It’s always been deeply invested in its own cultural perspective. by IAI_Admin
>You're nitpicking by only focusing on a single definition of the word capitalist, but substitute whatever word you want for "someone who thinks capitalism is a good economic system" (and I realize the way I phrased that sets it up for some pithy zinger but can we please not?)
It's not nitpicking, this is literally a philosophy forum meant for discussion and I'm giving the only philosophically useful definition of capitalist. There are objective realities of the class-based societies we live in and your direct material interests depend on how you relate to that social system.
If you've read all that socialist theory and you are a worker, then you must understand that the organization of power in your favor as opposed to against it would allow you greater freedoms and less alienation.
I did understand what you meant by team capitalism and I reject the idea that socialism doesn't allow for nuanced policy in regards to economic problems.
Choosing socialism only means choosing workers' power and working on undoing these exploitative systems permanently and at the speed in which it is possible to do so. If it is beneficial to workers that some level of private property and profit remains for the time being and in a controlled setting, despite it being socially backwards, then that policy will be chosen.
Both public ideological discussions and scientific experiments would be taken into account when balancing socio-cultural development with the realities of economic demands.
PepsiMoondog t1_j3y6b7i wrote
No, you are deliberately conflating two different definitions of the word capitalist to suit your argument. I hate to be the guy citing a dictionary, but since your definition of the term is not one shared by everyone else, let's consult Miriam-Webster:
>Capitalism: noun
>1: a person who has capital especially invested in business
>2: a person who favors capitalism
You are saying that only definition 1 is valid and that definition 2 does not exist (even though it's the one that more relates to discussions of philosophy, and is obviously the meaning I intended in my comment).
You do not get to gatekeep how the word is used or decide which definition is or isn't useful. You also do not get to tell other people what their beliefs are. Sorry.
Hypersensation t1_j3zalpo wrote
>No, you are deliberately conflating two different definitions of the word capitalist to suit your argument. I hate to be the guy citing a dictionary, but since your definition of the term is not one shared by everyone else, let's consult Miriam-Webster:
Dictionaries are notoriously terrible when it comes to political theory, precisely because of widespread incorrect use of political definitions. I gave you a form of the Marxist definition, which explains what a capitalist is and why.
>>Capitalism: noun > >>1: a person who has capital especially invested in business > >>2: a person who favors capitalism > >You are saying that only definition 1 is valid and that definition 2 does not exist (even though it's the one that more relates to discussions of philosophy, and is obviously the meaning I intended in my comment).
The second one is clearly contradictory, people have just used it wrongly time and time, likely due to repeated wrongful use by capitalist media in an attempt to think your pension savings makes you a capitalist or a beneficiary of capitalism.
I also highly struggle with why you thought this semantic battle was necessary even after I addressed your point or why how a person self-identifies ideologically has any impact on the material truth of their class relations.
>You do not get to gatekeep how the word is used or decide which definition is or isn't useful. You also do not get to tell other people what their beliefs are. Sorry.
I gave the only meaningful definition of the word in a philosophical place. A capitalist makes their income from capital, juxtaposed to workers who are forced to sell their labor-power in order to procure a wage necessary to purchase the means of subsistence.
Way to go to purposely miss every point I made or outright ignore them by playing a game of semantics though.
PepsiMoondog t1_j3zd7qp wrote
My dude, it is absolutely you who is playing the semantics game by refusing to use or even recognize a word in its common definition which is agreed upon by everyone except you.
But I guess there is no point in continuing this debate, seeing as how we are apparently speaking different languages.
Hypersensation t1_j3znihl wrote
>My dude, it is absolutely you who is playing the semantics game by refusing to use or even recognize a word in its common definition which is agreed upon by everyone except you.
Nobody discussing political theory uses the word that way, but do go on dodging the actual points I made.
>But I guess there is no point in continuing this debate, seeing as how we are apparently speaking different languages.
Not only did you get hung up on a thing I addressed twice, you're now pretending like I didn't.
SenorBulldog t1_j3zjam1 wrote
>I'm giving the only philosophically useful definition of capitalist.
Sorry adherents of the most popular economic theory in the world, you don't get to exist.
Hypersensation t1_j3zncfv wrote
Capitalists are very few, whereas their capital has been used to brainwash a whole lot of workers into supporting a system diametrically opposed to their material interests.
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