In the second half, which is paywalled if you don't request a free subscription, Sam takes issue with Nussbaum's assertion that there can be no hierarchy between living creatures, and that one should care as much about the killing of a mouse as the killing of a human. When pressed, she admitted that she wouldn't feel the same in both scenarios, but only because she is imperfect.

This may have been the most important question raised in the discussion: is it only "speciesism" that leads us to value complex life more than "less complex" life, or is there actually a rational basis from which to ask the question of which animals' lives are more important? To what degree are all creatures conscious, and what level of consciousness is deemed "conscious enough" for us to feel empathy? What kind of world would we be living in if we actually cared less about four homeless people than about five squirrels?

This touched on some of the same ideas that Sam has discussed with Peter Singer, Uma Valeti (Memphis Meats), and others, as well as one of his hobby horses, consciousness.