Submitted by thenousman t3_10py468 in philosophy
SyntheticBees t1_j6n0v4u wrote
This article is... god-awful. It read's like what a second year undergrad writes assuming they're the first person to ever call bullshit on the ideas they're being presented with (or not even realising that calling bullshit was part of the reason they'd been presented with those ideas in the first place). It's a very "everyone else are just sheeple" vibe.
Starting off with the Plato section, it's talked about how Socrates seems to reply over-literally to Thrasymachus' claim regarding rulers, failing to understand the rhetorical point being illustrated. But Thrasymachus himself probably wasn't even real, or at least was heavily fictionalised by the dialogue - the whole thing itself is a rhetorical device! It's not that I suspect Plato was trying to make Socrates look like a bad thinking, it's that the whole dialogue itself is just an excuse to exposit ideas, not necessarily a realist account of two blokes arguing.
And the end thesis has a gigantic gap in it as well. Philosophy is a field filled with people who love to argue, deep arguments, petty argument, pedantic arguments, broad arguments, and are generally well trained to pick apart each other's reasoning (and strongly incentivised too - bringing down a big philosophical theory is a great way to make a name for yourself). For a "great" philosopher's flawed work to survive in that environment, one of two things must be true. Its flaws must be either so subtle as to require another "great" philosopher to come around to unpick them, or the works must have value in spite of their obvious issues.
The issues picked up on in the article are, well, not new. Hell, the issues with the categorical imperative are so famous that anyone studying formal ethics will learn about it. These are very old observations. It's then reasonable to assume that, given how philosophers tend to bicker, dissect and scrutinise ideas, that these thinkers must hold some value in spite of their very well known flaws.
The article tries to sweep a whole lot under the rug by simply describing these thinkers ideas as "interesting", in a semi-contemptuous way. But most "interesting" ideas put forward by blowhards soon lose people's attention, and many philosophers considered important for a while fall into obscurity. The article doesn't really answer, why THESE thinkers, THESE ideas, in spite of all the scrutiny? Fun hypotheticals alone don't tend to secure people a place in the canon. It completely fails to tackle its own questions by just using the label "interesting" as though that explains anything. Most gradiose ideas with shit reasoning fall away - so in what different way are the "great" philosophers "interesting" that their ideas are kept around in spite of their known mistakes?
My issue is not that these thinkers are sacrosanct and shouldn't be questioned. It's that this article is so goddamned adolescent that it seems to assume the author is the first person to claim the emperor has no clothes, and doesn't seem to even think to pause and then check if that's true.
XiphosAletheria t1_j6ny64n wrote
I think it depends on what you think the role of philosophy is.
If you think it aims at finding truth, then the article makes a good point. You don't really study Becher and phlogiston theory in chemistry or Lamarck's view of evolution in biology, except as historical curiosities. If philosophy, like the hard sciences, aims at truth, then most of the old "great" philosophers shouldn't really be taught anymore, because they got almost everything wrong.
Now, if you think philosophy is more about learning how to think consistently about a variety of ultimately subjective topics, then of course the "great" philosophers are worth studying for the reasons you outlined, much as older literature is worth studying because it is the beginning of a very long and ongoing cultural conversation.
The issue, I think, is that most of the ancient philosophers, especially back before the hard sciences split off from natural philosophy, explicitly claim philosophy is the first type of thing rather than the second. And even today you'll get some philosophers who'll prattle nonsense about objective moral facts and whatnot. Philosophy is sort of an odd humanity in that way.
slickwombat t1_j6oizqo wrote
Philosophy aims at truth. But the great philosophers didn't "get almost everything wrong," such that they're mere historical curiosities and unworthy of consideration otherwise.
Huemer says this based on a parody-level analysis of literally three ideas from three philosophers, but it's not right even if we just consider those examples. Kantian constructivism, for example, is still extremely influential in contemporary moral philosophy. Hume's skepticism, while often seen as mainly setting the stage for Kant, is hardly a dead idea that's fallen by the wayside; his problem of induction is still debated, for example.
thenousman OP t1_j6p5h8g wrote
I second this though I think it’s important to highlight that the level of analysis of Huemer’s post is appropriate for a blogpost. He gets carried away but if his aim with his blogposts is to provoke philosophical reflection then I think he has succeeded. I rarely agree with him, but he makes me think a lot better which I why I continue to read his blog.
slickwombat t1_j6pg4lr wrote
I think the level of analysis should be adequate to support the claim made, regardless of the format. So if a claim like "the great philosophers of the western canon are all wrong and bad at philosophy" can't be supported in blog post length, it probably ought not be made in a blog post. Unless of course the point is just to be provocative without substance, which would be pretty ironic in this case.
thenousman OP t1_j6pgcks wrote
C’mon now, his blog is literally called Fake Nous 😂
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