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pierogieking412 t1_j5ath51 wrote

Remember when there were promises of consumer benefits when they were selling us fracking? When does that kick in?

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j5btoht wrote

This is the most infuriating shit. We were promised 10-12 years ago that we'd have nearly free heating gas forever if we just let these companies fuck up our water and air. Now they're selling it all to Shell or compressing it and sending it overseas, and we get the awesome cancer risk with no upsides.

 
They promised us a bunch of good-paying jobs and they all went to road warriors from Texas and Oklahoma.

 
They promised landowners that they'd get lucrative lease agreements and they spun off their pipeline operations and charged themselves fees that they could take out of leaseholder payments.
 
I don't know how many times extractive industries have to shit on us before we figure out that they're all snakes, now and forever.

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WorstTimeCaller t1_j5cakys wrote

And we can’t have a severance tax because it would cut into all of those benefits

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mmphoto412 t1_j5bxgr5 wrote

Right after i get my property tax rebate from the casino

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KentuckYSnow t1_j5deaon wrote

Idk where you live, but in the city, that's like a 30k reduction to the school property tax assessment which is worth around 300 bucks.

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pa_bourbon t1_j5b2dnx wrote

Go look at this chart. Shale boom around here started just before 2010. Prices stayed low until the silliness with Russia and Ukraine started. Russia supplied much of Europe’s gas and that ended when the war started. That was a huge global supply disruption and prices followed.

The shale effect absolutely existed for more than a decade. The chart shows it.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/rngwhhdm.htm

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pierogieking412 t1_j5bfyif wrote

So all of this was for 10 years of cheap gas?

That's a horseshit deal for us.

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dingurth1 t1_j5c5uwk wrote

for the record and some perspective regarding that chart, $9 is the US historical average. We didn't even touch that with the spike in prices this past year. People are so used to rock bottom energy prices we're complaining about something that's still under the average.

Meanwhile the rest of the world is paying 4-6x what we are. So in that regard we still have it quite good.

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NewUse2430 t1_j5cwehm wrote

Just imagine when clean, fresh water supply becomes commoditized.

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pa_bourbon t1_j5bie7j wrote

Shale swells are still producing. The Russian gas has basically been taken off the market. Supply disruption = price hikes.

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Excelius t1_j5fi0n4 wrote

We'd probably be looking at actual shortages right now without that domestic capacity, instead of just uncomfortably high prices.

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PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5d98hu wrote

Can’t disagree. However the negative environmental impact of fracking and the delay it caused to the transition to actually clean energy was not worth it. Completely short sighted.

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KentuckYSnow t1_j5der11 wrote

There's no such thing as clean energy. It all has environmental drawbacks, from dammed valleys to eagles whose wings get chopped off. The materials used to store electricity to avoid burning fossil fuels are themselves terrible to extract from the environment, but like much else, it shifts the problem elsewhere and it's out of sight, out of mind.

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PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5emvdt wrote

Everything has drawbacks. Renewables and nuclear just has fewer drawbacks than fossil fuels.

Critical minerals in batteries are more than 95% recyclable with today’s technology so that isn’t as big of a deal as people think.

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neglectedselenium t1_j5e8s4k wrote

Don't worry about them lithium batteries. There are other more common metals which could replace lithium, like sodium.

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pittpajamas t1_j5b4ghz wrote

Is there a point to your argument? Maybe the chart was the point? Not getting it.

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pittpajamas t1_j5b3w2y wrote

It will kick in right after the taxpayer benefits from casinos kicks in. Not a great state to live in. As soon as they try to reassess my house, I'm gone. Probably to WV or OH. PA does not respect the taxpayers.

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Krane412 t1_j5c15mn wrote

If there wasn't fracking it'd be even higher. Thank Vladmir Putin for invading Ukraine and pushing up natural gas prices worldwide. It's a globally traded commodity, the U.S. has been exporting more to Europe so they're not dependent on Russia.

>U.S. LNG exporters boosted shipments to Europe by more than 137% in the first 11 months of 2022 from the same period in 2021,

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pierogieking412 t1_j5cba41 wrote

Good for them for taking advantage of the situation and making money, but we've suffered. We were promised dirt cheap energy, and instead were middle of the pack when it comes to how much people pay in each state.

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PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5d9dhs wrote

Dirt cheap energy only if you don’t include the social cost of carbon

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imouttahereta t1_j5ds74q wrote

Yeah let's get rid of that and use wind and solar instead. Works great in Pittsburgh, and I didn't want heating in the winter anyway.

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PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5en2e7 wrote

No one is calling for the sudden shutdown of fossil fuel sources. It is a transition and fossil fuels will continue to play an important role.

My comment is that the fossil fuels are “cheap” only because the actual damaging effects of them are not priced into what the consumer sees.

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neglectedselenium t1_j5e8wxx wrote

You can have dirt cheap energy right now but you need to install solar power panels on your roof. They are record cheap and will continue getting cheaper

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SayTheLineBart t1_j5enq9n wrote

You need storage (battteries) too. I’m in Hawaii and even here it with so much sun you need a lot of panels and batteries to be self sufficient. It’s an investment with a lot of up front cost.

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KentuckYSnow t1_j5d5pzf wrote

It kicks in when we aren't shipping liquified gas to Europe to keep their heating bills down when they don't want to buy from Russia.

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cdelaney1982 t1_j5bdcye wrote

My laundry smells funny now...is that part of those?

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