Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jdd6wrq wrote
Reply to comment by Wonderful_Ad_7235 in Teamsters and distributors are trying to take away Rhode Island breweries ability to self distribute. They need our help. by beerisgreatPA
Also: pro-union here đď¸ Donât want to give the wrong impression. But the grocery bill will turn the Rhode Island wine scene into Florida. People take our selection for granted, but it took a long time and a lot of effort to get it to where it is now. We donât know how good we have it.
beerisgreatPA OP t1_jddo8z8 wrote
Exactly. This is not about unions. Itâs about making this state friendly for new and small businesses. The current three their system is all about protecting big beer/brands.
Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jddr2f9 wrote
Thatâs not really accurate. The three tiered system protects independent retailers and also helps to keep the selection from becoming a corporate cesspool of lowest common denominator swill. Currently brewerâs licenses are far more accommodating and attractive and give brewers more ability to grow and make money than retailers, who have zero opportunities for growth beyond what they can sell off their shelves. Brewers can âbrewâ, be a restaurant, a retailer (think itâs the equivalent of a case at a time??), and distribute on a license that costs what, $1500? Retailers have to spend at least $100k for a license that only lets them sell retail. So all in all, brewers have it pretty good, which is probably why there are so many of them! Not RI but check out Tree House and all their swanky locations. Impressions can be deceptive but it appears they are making bank. Perhaps the solution is to expand retailerâs licenses so that on-premise sales are allowed as well. Why not have a free for all? Get your scratchy and crack a cold one at your local packy!
beerisgreatPA OP t1_jddstfp wrote
That is not accurate. Brewers have to apply for a completely separate license. The distro license is 4 grand a year. Also, I think it needs to be reiterated. This is and has been 100% legal. The DBR is also against this. And what treehouse was able to do is a perfect example of how Rhode Island breweries are disadvantaged compared to their piers in Ct and MA.
Both of those states a brewery license allows for distro. They can also sell wine and unlimited cases to customers.
I donât see distributors failing there, And tree house doesnât even distribute fyi.
Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jddzgs3 wrote
Ok so it's 4k a year vs $1500, everything else I said is accurate. Everyone with a liquor license needs to re-up every year, that's not special. But retailer's pay far more right out of the gate (again: upwards of 100k) with zero opportunity for growth. Retailers cannot purchase any other license. They are trapped in their current, not-very-lucrative circumstances, and they never have anyone to defend them. Most distributors are not raking it in either. RI has some very small distributors, and many more who have failed. They have to pay their suppliers within 30 days, and if they don't get paid in 30 days, then their lives get a bit difficult. And yet no one ever defends them either. If what we're after (aside from tasty beverages) is a healthy environment to create and sustain thriving small businesses connected to and with a stake in their communities, then we need to listen to all of them, not just the ones we happen to like. Rhode Island has managed to protect its independent retailers from going the way of Total Wine carcasses (even though it has a looooong way to go) almost more than any other state. But it's holding on by a thread. Picking and choosing who gets to succeed here isn't really the way to go about fostering that healthy environment. If we're really interested in leveling the playing field, then let's do it for everyone. How? Beats me. But like I said, allowing retailers to sell by the glass, as well as, I don't know, be importers?? Would that be acceptable? How do we maintain our current pretty awesome selection of booze across the board, from beer to byrhh, without throwing some segments under the bus? Are we going to continue to only change the rules for some and never for others? I'm just having a hard time seeing how that is fair.
beerisgreatPA OP t1_jdedec5 wrote
I dont even know where to start with this.
- Lets lead with the distributors and retailers not being defended. Liquor lobby is only overmatched by the teamsters. They are constantly blocking stuff left and right. Centrex basically IS the distributors. Those three Distributors M&M Horizon and RID are somewhere in the range of 75% of all distributed alc in the state, and when you look at just beer its in the 90s, all of which is delivered by the teamsters through centrex. A couple thousand cases a year in craft beer is a literal drop in the ocean.
- As far as retailers and distributors not making money. There are for sure some liquor stores not making much, those stores though are A. not selling much craft beer and B. usually being suffocated by another larger conglomerate of stores. The other stores are making TONS of money especially in the last 3 years. SPEAKING of loop holes and licenses, How is it that the haxtons, Guptas, heritage and several other retailers, can skirt the rules and get several licenses through family buying? The distributors are also making LOADS of money and two of the three big ones have distributors in multiple states, all of which (except RI) have self distribution and it doesn't seem to be making a dent in thier bottom lines
- leveling the playing field. That is exactly what self distribution does. It allows breweries to sell 15 barrels of beer a quarter and get healthy margins for them. Meanwhile the distributors and retailers are still selling 2 or 3 times that of corona, bud, miller etc a day.
- Retailers grew far far far more 2019-2023 than any other segment of the industry.
- Lastly, the retailers really don't care about this at all, it allows them to sell more local product. Which is one reason why they are not mentioned here. They are however VERY afraid of the teamsters since they were protesting in front of their stores when they took deliveries last year from MS walker. they are more concerned with stop and shop and nip legislation.
Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jdel1s5 wrote
I don't even know where to start with this.
- The liquor lobby is going to defend its industry. Why would it not? No one else outside of the organization that is paid to defend the industry defends the liquor stores or distributors. That's my point.
- I did not say retailers and distributors are not making money, but you clearly don't know many retailers. Or distributors. The few boom years of covid were an anomaly, and only for some, and much of the money made did not translate into profits because of tariffs and shipping costs, as well as rising cost of labor. You think retailers make money on beer?? Hahahaha. No. I 'm pretty sure I addressed the stores skirting the rules with multiple licenses; they should not be allowed to do that, but they are because they have the cash and the connections with politicians. In no way does this help small, independent retailers, those to which I refer.
- Self distribution does not level the playing field. Generally it's been retailers who are the first and loudest cheerleaders for local brewers, it's odd to pit them against one another. But how much money do you think retailers make on Corona, Bud, Miller, etc? Those are loss-leaders. Yikes. The profits are often less than the cost to keep them cold.
- Which laws do you think have been changed in favor of *small* retailers over the last decade or so, and which laws do you think should or could be changed to benefit retailers in the future? I'm assuming you are aware that independent liquor stores have been squeezed to the brink and forced out of business in more than one state due to large corporations changing the rules in favor of themselves. One case recently went all the way to the Supreme Court, in fact, where state's rights and small business lost. Oh so ironically.
- Lastly, I don't know if retailers do or don't care about this ONE SPECIFIC BILL but the point is that retailers have faced an onslaught of bills and apparently they are supposed to sit back quietly while their livelihoods die by a thousand shallow cuts. The optimal thing would be an industry that respects each other, for the public to understand what it is that is at stake for individual *small* businesses (and therefore the neighborhoods in which they are located) and ideally, for a rising tide to lift all boats. But apparently that is not the ocean we're sailing in.
beerisgreatPA OP t1_jdenwsa wrote
Not sure how retailers became the focus of this back and forth, But first, I know more about the distributors than just about anyone other than the morans, mancinis or epstiens/rubensteins. As for the retailers, due to my intimate knowledge of the distributors, I know just about every major player in retail, and as I said, they actually don't care about this bill, some even oppose it. As for future legislation, the retailers need protecting. Keeping stop and shop etc out and defending them against the deposit/nips crap is a priority. I want to reiterate, these licenses are 100% legal and they are trying to take away these licenses that were legally obtained. No laws need to be changed for the retailers. How does self distro hurt retailers? It allows more local beer to be sold directly to them, and for better prices mind you.
This bill is about the teamsters and distributors coming for the breweries who have finally gotten to a point where they are running meaningful businesses, employing hundreds of people. They are trying to keep RI from adapting to a industry that has completely changed in the last 15 years. Basically every state has, why can't we? I don't see the breweries trying to change the amount they can sell or anything, (at least at this time) this is about selling more be TO THE RETAILERS. Honestly I think the retailers and the breweries are kinda on the same side here. Also, the teamsters are in support of the severely damaging bill for nips/bottle deposits. Retailers should be focused on that.
anywho! I am asking for this groups support in the name of craft brewers. Reach out to our reps in opposition to this bill!
Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jder8bh wrote
Well, I too have intimate knowledge of the industry, from basically all sides, spanning multiple decades and states. Almost every new law hurts retailers. It became about retailers when there was the obligatory "evil retailers lining their pockets" comment somewhere on this thread. Brewers have gotten many laws passed in their favor over the past few years. Good for them! I honestly mean that. Who doesn't love a vibrant brewery scene? If they grow their self-distribution side, it won't necessarily hurt retailers but it also won't sell more beer, the brewers will just keep more of the profit. At least the ones who can self-distribute. Those who are able to afford trucks, warehouses, drivers, etc...and then suddenly the playing field is no longer level. And the real question, as always, is what of the slippery slope? Again, it always leads to more losses for the retailers.
You are correct, the nips/bottle deposit bill is very damaging to retailers, as is the grocery/convenience store bill that is currently alive and seems to come up every year now, it's just potentially a different palm to grease each time.
So I guess if the grocery bill (H5415) doesn't pass this year, I'm asking for support in protecting retailers the next time it is on our doorstep. Probably 6 months from now. And to not assume that your neighbors who toil their lives away in dusty liquor stores, working long hours with few days off and fewer vacations, are somehow multimillionaires just slumming it for the fun of it.
Wonderful_Ad_7235 t1_jde07c0 wrote
Also I know treehouse doesn't distribute. Kind of case in point.
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