Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

bigwavedave000 t1_j7snwh6 wrote

I was always curious what made species gigantic in the past.

73

Cloverleafs85 t1_j7tee15 wrote

Depends on place, time, presence of competition and how long since a major extinction event, and what else is around. Enough big prey animals to support sustainable groups of large predators, not enough major apex predators around to limit herbivore size etc.

Most extinction events hit the large species harder because they need more food to sustain their bodies, and a major hit to their diet goes very badly. In the time after though, after whatever went wrong is over or stabilized to a new normal, some of the smaller species start to grow to fill the gap left behind.

One reason for a marine animal to get bigger is insulation. Even warm water can draw heat from a body. It makes it easier to regulate your own body temperature and that means you can stay in the water for longer and travel further, and may reach harder to access food sources.

The time for giant penguins was between 60-23 million years ago. There were more than this one species. But they all died out.

Their fall coincides with the diversification of dolphins who might have competed for the same spot in terms of diet and size and they were much better at it, or they may have acted as predators to the penguins. Or both.

As for place several of these giant penguin species have been found in or near new Zealand. At their time there was also the Zealandia continent, which since around 23 million years ago is almost completely submerged. Besides new Zealand itself and some islands poking out. But for many millions of years there was more land, and as it sunk it brought nutrients that could support rich fishing grounds, but not low enough to make it very passable for major marine animals that couldn't go in shallow waters. Which could have made a very roomy and rich niche for something like a penguin. Until it sank even further down. And that is when dolphins and whales hit their stride in this region.

48

jclua001 t1_j7so8n3 wrote

Abundance of food? Takes alot of calories for a gorilla sized penguin to roll

29

bigwavedave000 t1_j7sog1f wrote

I was thinking along the lines of more oxygen in the air or something fundamental. Theres lots of food now.

38

clay12340 t1_j7sxqrl wrote

This is the leading theory. Higher levels of oxygen and huge land masses free of human development to roam on.

19

HobgoblinKhanate1 t1_j7tjwtn wrote

It was always normal to have big animals we just killed most of them

15

sewankambo t1_j7ul4v7 wrote

Yeah we killed the giant penguin 60 million years ago.

7

HobgoblinKhanate1 t1_j7ur0rx wrote

I’m not talking about the giant penguin specifically. More large mammals than this have existed before and since

3

CMGS1031 t1_j7w0ere wrote

And less less than 1% of them were killed by humans.

2

_Rollins_ t1_j7styg3 wrote

I think it was actually an abundance of carbon dioxide?

3

autoantinatalist t1_j7tdvyl wrote

Carbon dioxide is plants. They used to be more huge too

8

OfLittleToNoValue t1_j7u2a1n wrote

The first trees would grow 100m straight up without branches. The earth was actually covered by fallen trees for millions of years before the bacteria that break them down evolved.

9

DeepSpaceNebulae t1_j7ulxl8 wrote

The Carboniferous period, names after the massive coal (carbon) deposits we discovered all around the world from those trees

3

slickhedstrong t1_j7t25ke wrote

let me throw in gigantism as an evolutionary trait that protects prey animals from predation, and thus escalation where predators needed to be larger to predate on huge prey.

the sheer variety of species back in time is massively scaled compared to today.

eventually things hit a critical mass though, as that size becomes unsupportable with slower reproduction and birthing cycles and strategies. look at pandas that would rather eat than mate, or alpha walrus social structure where most males never get a chance to copulate.

and so being smaller, caring for smaller young, requires much less resources, and allows much faster breeding, and so becomes evolution's dominant form.

add environmental changes like less oxygen, but count that as part of the resources a species needs to thrive, not a cause for gigantism.

14

faern t1_j7tj1h6 wrote

human also put a negative pressure toward size. We shoot big animal as trophy, we compete for land with those animal. Land that used to feed large animal are now soybeans farm feeding us.

1

irago_ t1_j7tlzwh wrote

The soybeans mostly feed the large animals we didn't kill because they're tame enough

4

modsarefascists42 t1_j7tifgl wrote

Nothing, we just killed most of the species bigger than us when we evolved. Only ones we kept on purpose or ones that evolved alongside us in Africa were the main survivors.

−2