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Lurkernomoreisay t1_jbvnp01 wrote

Reply to comment by tyler1128 in MDMA appears to confer resilience in a rodent model of chronic social defeat stress by chrisdh79

Flaminate was likely referring to :

More that studies have shown that after decades, there is still no evidence that depression is caused by low seratonin levels https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220720080145.htm

That anti-depressants have questionable benefit to a significant number of patients.

> Antidepressants seem to have minimal beneficial effects on depressive symptoms and increase the risk of both serious and non-serious adverse events -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7418603/

Meta-studies showing that SSRI use was not beneficial in the long term. (Not beneficial as in harmful to long-term health)

> Outcome reporting was less thorough during follow-up than for the intervention period and only two trials maintained the blind during follow-up. All authors concluded that the drugs were not beneficial in the long term. -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6839490/

-- I agree on the Ketamine and Psychedelics.

Ketamine treatment has done wonders for myself, and several of my friends.

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tyler1128 t1_jbvtybq wrote

I never said it wasn't questionable benefit to many people, I explicitly said that. We can cite study after study or meta-analysis after meta-anaylsis, but the fact is, SSRIs score above placebo in statistical significance more often than not, opinion on them notwithstanding. I work in I guess tangent to the field of epidemiology, but I write software for use by epidemiologists for after market drug effect statistical analysis, on algorithms we use to do that. SSRIs are well above placebo, doesn't matter whether you can cite criticism of them or not, and non-SSRI antidepressants almost all work on the serotoninergic system to some level. Ketamine and bupropion are examples that don't directly, or ketamine at all, but ketamine's MOA is not fully understood beyond that we believe the neuroplasticity change to be significant. Ketamine's acute antidepressant effects last well beyond the length of the drug or known medically relevant metabolites being in your system.

Unfortunately, people who had bad experience with SSRIs really love to make that known even if they know barely beyond an iota of knowledge in the actual science. Even if this is /r/science. And it's really frustrating.

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Cnudstonk t1_jbyjvvb wrote

I had help from them. but it didn't save my job. psilocybin, mdma, ketamine, all made ssri's look like a joke.

better than placebo/not lethal is the lowest bar possible. ssri also wrecked a multi year weight loss journey. It's trash.

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tyler1128 t1_jbzv8dq wrote

Same, I have a mixed relationship with them. Sadly ketamine therapy has not been the breakthrough for me some people have had, though it has absolutely helped.

I'm very optimistic about the future of the field of psychiatry though with the movement beyond just the stuff that has helped somewhat but has been far from a cure for the last 40 or so years.

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