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marketrent OP t1_j5fhg07 wrote
Findings in title quoted from the linked summary^1 and peer-reviewed journal article.^2
From the linked summary^1 released 16 Jan. 2023 by the U.K.’s Natural History Museum:
>Fighting for mates may be a behaviour that dates back over 400 million years.
>A unique specimen suggests that male Walliserops trilobites fought each other using trident-like structures to win the opportunity to mate with females.
>Co-author Professor Richard Fortey OBE FRS, who is a Scientific Associate at the Museum, says, “The extraordinary Devonian trilobite Walliserops carried a unique, giant trident on its head, the purpose of which has long been a mystery.”
>“We now believe that it was used for jousting between males striving for dominance. The evolution of sexually motivated competition in animals is hundreds of millions of years older than we thought.”
>
>The researchers analysed the shape of the Walliserops tridents and compared them to the weapons of beetles to try and understand how they might have been used. They found the trident shape was most similar to beetles that try to tip over their opponents with shovel-like weapons.
>When the trilobites were alive 400 million years ago, it is believed they used their tridents to prod at each other before attempting to get underneath their rival and turn them over.
>While any trilobites that did get flipped were not necessarily stuck, the amount of time it could have taken to right themselves would have allowed victorious males the opportunity to mate with females.
>The trilobite at the centre of this study stands out from many other Walliserops specimens held in museums because of its unique trident.
>Instead of having three points, or tines, it is the only known individual to have grown four. The tines are all broadly equivalent in size and there is no sign of injury, which suggests it was born with four as a result of genetic mutation.
>Even more important than the four-tined trident itself is the fact that the specimen is fully grown. By making it to adulthood, it shows that the feature that makes it different from other trilobites didn't have a significant impact on its chances of survival.
^1 Unique trilobite trident could be the oldest evidence of male sexual combat, 16 Jan. 2023, https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2023/january/unique-trilobite-trident-could-be-oldest-evidence-male-sexual-combat.html
^2 Gishlick A. and Fortey R. Trilobite tridents demonstrate sexual combat at 400 Mya. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2023. 120 (4) e2119970120. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2119970120
hazpat t1_j5gt3ki wrote
The entire hypothesis is based around an individual with 4 spikes making it to adulthood.... since the malformed trident didnt impede survival it must be used in combat? at first glance, these look like they would also work great at disturbing mud in front of themselves while foraging...
dream_plant t1_j5gw6ur wrote
How does their intercourse look like? Did they experience any reward similar to orgasm during mating with females?
mr_jim_lahey t1_j5h7fdy wrote
Eagerly awaiting your forthcoming peer-reviewed paper where you refute their in-depth analysis that the shape is most similar to modern day beetles that use their horns for jousting. No doubt your I-looked-at-this-for-2-seconds pet theory will put these so-called trilobite "experts" who "dedicate their lives to studying this type of thing" to shame.
[deleted] t1_j5h7xzc wrote
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[deleted] t1_j5hicz3 wrote
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marketrent OP t1_j5hin5c wrote
>hazpat
>The entire hypothesis is based around an individual with 4 spikes making it to adulthood.... since the malformed trident didnt impede survival it must be used in combat? at first glance, these look like they would also work great at disturbing mud in front of themselves while foraging...
From the linked summary^1 released by U.K.’s Natural History Museum:
>This suggests that a role in feeding or digging is unlikely, because the changes the fourth tine causes to the overall shape of the trident would have made it more difficult to use for these purposes, limiting the individual's chance of survival.
^1 Unique trilobite trident could be the oldest evidence of male sexual combat, Ashworth J., 16 Jan. 2023.
Dogsb4humanz t1_j5il1ml wrote
Not what I thought they meant when I first read “sexual combat”
SnoodlyFuzzle t1_j5j175u wrote
Yes, but we all know that the Retiarius usually loses.
beardybuddha t1_j5j34ja wrote
This is fun timing on this news.
I’m just finishing up Fortey’s book on trilobites.
Fascinating little critters.
Kelter_Skelter t1_j5j5di3 wrote
Toxic masculinity is baked into the universe I guess
hazpat t1_j5jop5i wrote
These tridents face down. Similar to elephant or boar tusks. They may be used in combat but they appear to be perfectly located to stir up mud as there primary purpose.
Beetle horns usually face out and up more like rhinos because there primary use is different.
hazpat t1_j5jvg38 wrote
That paragraph is based on looking at the trident. Same as my opinion. The quad trident looks like it would work just as fine to stir sediment. Visually nothing indicates it would be less effective than 3 for sifting or fighting
mr_jim_lahey t1_j5jz19i wrote
Like I said I'm sure you know better than these scientists who study trilobites for a living and I'm looking forward to your peer-reviewed scientific paper that supports your theory.
hazpat t1_j5jzy2n wrote
It's funny how you expect a redditor to provide peer reviewed opinions to counter what the authors refer to as speculation.
mr_jim_lahey t1_j5kjwam wrote
The significance of the paper is literally that it shows strong evidence that the horns were not for foraging/feeding in mud:
Have you ever written a scientific paper, or do you know any scientists? Do you think they just sit around and spout out random ideas that don't stand up to 2 seconds of idle speculation from laypeople? Because that seems to be the assumption inherent in your very confident assertion that these scientists are wrong based on your "first glance".
hazpat t1_j5kmklt wrote
Are you an author on this? You sound offended that a person can use the same visual comparison techniques as the authors and come up with a different speculation. Each time you redundantly quote the article, it is a section that uses visual assessment to say the structures on these aquatic creatures "looks like" what land creatures use in combat.
In your opinion once an article is published it can't be incorrect and nobody should question it? Jenny McCarthy vibes on that.
mr_jim_lahey t1_j5kqstq wrote
The thing I find offensive is the arrogance and disrespect for science in general to think that your non-expert, non-peer reviewed opinion that is specifically and methodically refuted in great detail by actual experts who wrote an actual peer-reviewed paper holds any weight. It's like telling an astronomer that they're wrong about the earth orbiting the sun because to you it looks like the sun is going around the earth.
hazpat t1_j5lfmm5 wrote
You realize they say multiple times they need more evidence to support their hypothesis right?. They aren't even sure if the species exhibits sexual dimorphism. You seem hyper invested in these authors initial untested hypothesis, you also seem to keep assuming this article has to be true because of peer review... it's literally a hypothesis open for discussion
sausage-superiority t1_j5lktze wrote
It’s a good question. I believe it’s extremely hard to tell things like that from fossil records.
[deleted] t1_j5lm65w wrote
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