johanknl t1_je984xe wrote on March 30, 2023 at 10:15 AM

Reply to comment by BigZaddyZ3 in Do people really expect to have decent lifestyle with UBI? by raylolSW

The fact that everyone agrees on something does not make it objective. It just means that all of humanity shares the same subjective view on that point.

BigZaddyZ3 t1_je98gpt wrote on March 30, 2023 at 10:20 AM

It certain cases, it absolutely does make it objective. If literally everyone finds a painting beautiful, it’s objectively a beautiful painting. How else would you define the term “objective” in this context?

johanknl t1_je9rdk8 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 1:25 PM

when i go to the dictionary it clearly states: "in a way that is based on facts and not influenced by personal beliefs or feelings"

even if everyone agrees, it's still just their feelings. You cannot have an objectively beautiful painting since beautiful inherently has to do with opinions and beliefs.

Objective and subjective are static things. One cannot fluidly go between both. In your example, if someone changed their mind, it would all of a sudden become subjective? that's not how these words work.

There's objective facts about a painting, such as the time it took to complete, or the colours used or something, but not how beautiful it is. Same for "good" and "bad" people. People just are and the judgement is subjective. whether we agree or not.

BigZaddyZ3 t1_jebb7g9 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 7:38 PM

Even when you take your feelings out of it, you can still make an argument for a piece of art being well-produced objectively. Regardless of your personal tastes…

And you can still make good arguments that serial killers have a negative impact on a community regardless of your personal beliefs…

johanknl t1_jecpodm wrote on March 31, 2023 at 1:27 AM

Of course. I never claimed otherwise. Being well produced or having negative effects on a community can absolutely be argued in objective ways.

The fact that for example "a good colour balance in painting is important and good" is subjective, does not mean that we cannot then go on to say that someone objectively produced a better result for that subjective ruleset.

That would focus in on details like that though. Saying that something is "beautiful" is not in any way objective.