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vikinglander t1_je5j7jc wrote

I didn’t see presented (despite the title) any reason why we need to get back to the moon. I understand that ice means water means O2 and H2. However, I would bet that cryos will much much cheaper launched from Earth than made on the moon for a long long time to come.

In fact the only way this makes sense is if launch costs come down and if launch costs come down then Earth originated propellant will be even cheaper even faster. I try, but I can’t make the economics of the ice mining idea work out favorably. Go to the moon sure but maybe don’t use the ice mining argument which (unless someone can educate me?) is as wrong as shuttle being low cost.

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Glittering-Jello-935 t1_je8cq6w wrote

Assuming you can create fuel on the moon, where do you store it?

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vikinglander t1_je8rwsd wrote

Store it as water apparently. Produce the H2 and O2 needed is the usual story.

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Glittering-Jello-935 t1_je9v0si wrote

You have to create fuel out of it, so you will have to store H2 and O2 at some point. That will take massive tanks if you are going to store for more than a few hours, it'll bleed out of smaller tanks. And it will take a long time and significant infrastructure to create that fuel, you don't have a lot of power generation any solar panels (which apparently you will need vast fields of) will have to be launched from Earth, installed and maintained. Temperatures on the moon reach 250F/120C, so you'll need vast amounts of insulation.

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mylittlethrowaway135 t1_jeb3u4z wrote

process it then store it back (as ice) in the permanent shadow until it needs to be processed?

seems like the most efficient way.

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vikinglander t1_jed92m8 wrote

Yeah so the idea of using lunar resources for propellant is nonsense.

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Glittering-Jello-935 t1_jeepq90 wrote

I don't know, if you have time and robots, you could dig large holes and if you can make some kind of concrete out of regolith that might do the trick. It'll take years of constant effort that no human could do and involves tech we haven't invented yet, but tech we hadn't invented yet in 1960 actually got us to the moon.

My point is it will take a long, long time if it can be done at all and it cannot be done by humans working on the moon

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gravitonbomb t1_je5jstz wrote

1000% they're gonna bottle the moon water and sell it to the richest of the rich. I don't want my tax dollars going to this with the state of our species.

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bookers555 t1_je786ye wrote

Yes, reddit, the Artemis program is made to get water for the rich people.

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gravitonbomb t1_je7c2ev wrote

Lunar observatory, yes.

Privatized lunar industry, no.

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bookers555 t1_je8eq8t wrote

There's going to be both, like it or not. But no, Artemis is not about getting water for the rich.

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