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The_Istrix t1_ir0fwdb wrote

Some people really want to climb the mountain just because it's there

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bisho t1_ir0htsi wrote

"We do it... and the other things... not because it is easy, but because it is hard. " - JFK

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OptimusSublime t1_ir0jts0 wrote

The truth is JFK didn't give one shit about space travel, he just wanted to beat the Russians.

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Analyst7 t1_ir0gv1m wrote

When a society ceases moving forward, with goals and aspirations it sinks into decline. Either you move forward or backward. Space exploration is the next frontier.

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House13Games t1_ir0k2y6 wrote

Is it forwards though? Its essentially a very expensive sink into another gravity well for nothing but PR and glory. Without an immediate economic return you get a repeat of the 60s moon landing... very dramatic, very exciting, very expensive, and very quickly abandoned for a very long time.

We'd get a lot further with manned exploration if the same costs were spent on some asteroid mining to return chunks of ice to low earth orbit. That would work as supplies and fuel for the next wave of exploration. It would pave the way for a lot of new technology like in-space material processing, telerobotic and AI controlled mining machines, and cuts costs for long-term zero-g presence ($25000 for ever kilo of water ice you get), and r&d for deep space power sources. Mars gives you ... not so much. You might do some in-situ mining and resource processing, but its expensive to return that to earth to help with earth orbit construction of new missions.

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svarogteuse t1_ir0vzbz wrote

Columbus traveling to the America's was an expensive sink also. You cant judge the results of exploration and expansion before its happened. You have no idea what might come out of pushing to Mars.

> but its expensive to return that to earth

Who said anything about coming back? Colonization is gong to stay. Elon doesn't care about Earth orbit construction. He wants to live on Mars.

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House13Games t1_ir4c9k7 wrote

Funny you mention Columbus... his explicit mission was to uncover a land route to Asia, to improve future trading, and the return of gold and wealth.

It was not to put a flag on the Americas or live there. None of that justifies the cost of the expedition.

Remind me again how a one-way ticket to a dead end destination helps with manned solar system exploration?

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svarogteuse t1_ir577e5 wrote

His explicit mission was a failure. Instead they discovered something beyond their wildest dreams that turned Spain into a world super power. The reasoning for going doesn't matter, its what you discover after you are there and how you make use of it that matters.

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House13Games t1_ir6pkz2 wrote

Only the discovery of life on Mars would make it worth going there. Otherwise its a waste.

ps, Columbus was returned in chains to spain as a failure. He died disappointed that he did not find the trade route to Asia.

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svarogteuse t1_ir6pt75 wrote

We need to invest money and go there to discover any life there might be there. Probes aren't going to cut it. If there is life its tenuous and holding on in sheltered locations not on the wide open flat plains our probes land on.

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MrGraveyards t1_ir0t3fa wrote

The thing is ELON has a dream of a Mars base. It is NOT the goal of SpaceX itself. The goal of SpaceX is to provide transport, build a vehicle that can enable a Mars colony, or a space colony, or a Titan colony, or whatever you pretty much want to do in this solar system.

Maybe they'll simply decide once they have that Starship thing worked out completely that we don't need to make humans 'multiplanetary', we need to move humans to space, where we can easily use the abundant materials to build stuff. I wouldn't count too much on that Mars colony, doesn't mean they're not doing something useful.

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House13Games t1_ir4cm45 wrote

Ok, I'll concede that they are pushing technology forward regardless of where it ends up. But my greatest fear is that the insane cost of a Mars base, and no actual tangible financial benefit, is just a re-run of the 60s moon race and will actually turn off the major backers and sources of money from further missions. It would be a shame to let Elons dream derail space exploration for another 60 or more years, just cos he wants to. At least government-financed missions were influenced by public support, whereas Elon essentially can do what he wants with all the money he got from everyone, with no accountability.

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Keinnection1 t1_ir0gxr0 wrote

What "rocket scientist" refers to themselves as a "rocket scientist"?

Why don't you watch an actual video of Elon explaining his intentions? He's only mentioned it a hundred times.

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ferrel_hadley t1_ir0i9ed wrote

>What "rocket scientist" refers to themselves as a "rocket scientist"?

Ones without engineering degrees.

Or jobs in the sector.

Or degrees.

Etc.

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KirisBeuller t1_ir0gae5 wrote

  1. It's awesome.
  2. Wanderlust is within many of us for a reason. It's part of why and how humanity perseveres.
  3. We'll learn many useful things along the way that will help massively both "up there" and "down here".
  4. It'll be nice to have after a super eruption causes massive problems that'll take decades or more to recover from.
  5. It's awesome.
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solidcordon t1_ir0gvdt wrote

Developing the toys to colonise mars has benefits for earth based industry and commerce.

Alternatively, you can get earth based money to pay for the development of your martian colonisation equipment.

The chances of earth being hit with an extinction level event are non-zero. The chances of mars being hit with an extincion level event (once a colony is established) is non-zero and higher than those of earth.

People migrate to new and exciting places to get away from what they consider the unpleasant situation they're in. Mars has no laws, no taxes and provides the perfect canvas for authoritarian "anarcho capitalists" or libertarians to set up their utopian future. Then they get eaten by bears.

Alternatively, humans have mismanaged the life support system of this spaceship for centuries so it's time to man the lifeboats and try to find a simpler spaceship rather than wait until this one fails.

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KirisBeuller t1_ir0iv62 wrote

You don't need laws in a brand new society. If you aren't vibing with everyone else or aren't being helpful then good luck surviving alone.

"What does this job pay?"

"Food and a place to sleep. Take it or leave it."

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solidcordon t1_ir0jstt wrote

Ah yes, free market slavery.

"It's my way or the airlock".

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KirisBeuller t1_ir0k015 wrote

Yep. Helping or hurting. If you're old/young enough to participate then your ass better be part of what's going on.

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solidcordon t1_ir0rhbw wrote

Splendid. The children of these freely associating economic actors... do they get the option to fly back to earth free of charge?

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KirisBeuller t1_ir0rtz7 wrote

Nope. They get to be part of creating a new world once they're capable of helping.

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savguy6 t1_ir0i0cv wrote

Elon has said his ultimate goal with SpaceX is to make humans a multi planet species. This is essential to our survival long term. We KNOW that asteroids large enough to cause a global catastrophe impact the earth on a relatively consistent basis every few dozen million years. We KNOW it will eventually happen again. Even though we are making steps to avoid something like that with DART and other similar missions, the bottom line is, if an asteroid the size of a state is heading to Earth, we have zero chance of doing anything about it. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was only a few miles across.

Even if before that happens, there are other things that could cause the end of life on earth; global warming, pandemic, nuclear war, etc. So to hedge our bets, we need to be living on more than 1 planet to survive.

That’s the ultimate end goal. Make it a viable option to get to Mars, and then figure out how to set up a permanent colony there, which eventually will become a larger colony, cities, terraforming, etc. The same way humans have been exploring and settling new frontiers for millennia.

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ferrel_hadley t1_ir0i2rd wrote

>I'm a rocket scientist

That dont impress me much.

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>And yet... I don't see the point in the Mars missions

What Mars missions? Which rockets do you work on again? The only Mars missions are things like the NASA rovers etc.

>I suspect that the real reason is Elon Musk trying to force America to pay for something they don't need

Which rocket do you scientist for again? SpaceX won the HLS program, most did not give them a chance. So its the other way round, they are providing services that the US needs.

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DoomForNoOne t1_ir0g497 wrote

Money. A lot of money. An unimaginable amount of money.

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theskepticalheretic t1_ir0gnsc wrote

Aside from the 'first' part. If Earth is devastated by an impactor, having a second base of humans is a good insurance policy.

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EarthExile t1_ir0hpnc wrote

Baby steps! Nobody finds a continent and puts up a city. They pitch a tent and start looking for resources.

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actual-rationalist t1_ir0iifc wrote

What is a rocket scientist? Rockets need a million different disciplines. Hell, maybe I’m a rocket scientist!

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ScottTrek t1_ir0nsi4 wrote

Elon wants Clout and Taxbreaks and also probably does not want to actually colonise Mars

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ferrel_hadley t1_ir0wsav wrote

SpaceX is the dominant provider of commercial launch services. Its a pretty solid revenue stream that would be there "clout" or no.

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ScottTrek t1_ir163dv wrote

I don't deny spaceX does some good and useful stuff but Colonising Mars is absurd and practically impossible and Elon Musk is a c**t grifter who only cares about money and teenagers on twitter thinking he is cool

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Ranryu t1_ir0ofg3 wrote

No laws against enslaving people to work in mines on Mars

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CTDKZOO t1_ir0gtrj wrote

The base point, right now, is absolutely profit.

That noted, I am actively interested in supporting activities right now that'll help future humans escape the lock Earth has on us and the sun eventually burning out. That sounds lofty, but we have to start somewhere on that problem and the sooner, the better.

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YourFatherUnfiltered t1_ir0i2gu wrote

if our species never get off this planet, we will eventually die off. The ultimate goal is for the human species to live beyond a planets life time and to be a space faring civilization not bound to a single planet. And eventually a truly interstellar civilization.

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Burnyburner3rd t1_ir0ixt1 wrote

Who’s to say we won’t develop better technologies in the next 10-50 years that would make colonizing Mars a much more pleasant experience? Getting our feet on the ground there means setting up for whatever comes next, in my opinion. 100 years ago spaceflight seemed crazy altogether to most people. Now it’s almost routine. Mars seems crazy to people today. See where I’m going with this? It might be fraught with challenges and dangers, but we need to learn what exactly will prevent us from advancing in order to overcome it.

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Duaality t1_ir0jnm4 wrote

It's a mission that is expected to take us from the impending man-made catastrophies (such as accelerated climate change) and cause them somewhere else.

It's unfathomable to think they have half a chance when they're squandering their time here not trying to give Earth a few more years. I'd advise them to clean up their mess before trying to settle on another planet and causing the same mess as has already been done. And the fucked up thing is is that our acceleration has only been documented from the past few centuries.

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Orpa__ t1_ir0njc5 wrote

Mars is already dead, and even if Earth were to go through some kind of global catastrophe, everything short of a giant astroid impact or something similar would still make it more habitable than Mars is right now.

Honestly, people on this sub are either totally naive or absolutely cynical.

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House13Games t1_ir0k38n wrote

Glory, and PR.

Also, if traces of life are found, dead or alive. Not many other reasons, and I'm afraid that it'll cost so much and return so little that it'll kill off manned solar system exploration for good. The moon landings were so one-shot and expensive it hasn't been attempted in 60 years. Why woulda Mars mission be any different?

Proper pacing would be to try some asteroid mining, to get various types of mass into low earth orbit for constructing the next wave of exploration.

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[deleted] t1_ir0k6ce wrote

The development of Military technology to sell to the government

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jimizeppelinfloyd t1_ir0nrvz wrote

I don't see why we need any more reason than because it's really awesome.

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simcoder t1_ir0rtyb wrote

Starlink, etc.

He wants to capture LEO and the best way to do that is to promise Mars to his legion of followers and convince them that giving him LEO is the only way they get to Mars.

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Hiding_behind_you t1_ir0hm7m wrote

Billionaires escape plan for when it gets a tad too warm here.

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Nonsenseinabag t1_ir0hsx6 wrote

They're trying to be the new equivalent of railroads, paving the way for future development by others and making a shit ton of money in the process. The rockets are the trains in this scenario.

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Wundei t1_ir0juqw wrote

To turn it into an industrial hub and spiritual home of the adeptus mechanicus…obviously

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DannyDeez93 t1_ir0lqof wrote

Because soon our species will die. Through carbon in the air, micro plastics, natural ice age meteror, nuclear warfare, or by virus. It's impending and inevitable. It is essential to keep a backup of ourselves somewhere.

But, it's looking like we'll all be gone in a series of flashes before this can be achieved.

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Additional-Sky-7436 t1_ir0rmc3 wrote

The "real reason" is two things:

  1. Musk wants to attract young engineering graduates that will devote their 20's to working in his companies. These young people are highly talented and not yet smart enough to know that the pitch is absurd.
  2. Musk wants to attract people with more money than brains to invest in his companies. People that are stupid rich and not smart enough to know that the pitch is absurd.

That's Musk's real target audience for almost all of his presentations, like the Tesla Robot. Musk isn't going to sell THAT many $20,000 humanoid robots. It's a gimmick to attract young engineers to come work for his companies.

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BillHicksScream t1_ir0hcik wrote

SpaceX has no actual colonization plans. If this was the original motivation, then Musk would have abandoned it a decade ago as unrealistic after talking to experts. He did not, he only increased bullshit futurism claims in lots of areas, from traffic to neuroscience, all easily debunked.

Musk has attacked NASA the last 20 years, two decades that saw some of the greatest achievements not just in science, but in human history. Spend any time with his fans and many have no idea we are already on Mars or the James Webb even exists. That says it all.

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SpaceCrazyArtist t1_ir0inn4 wrote

It’s an eho thing and Musk has the biggest ego ever

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