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ClearOptics t1_j51o8vc wrote

Reply to comment by budgie0507 in Ancient humans and their early depictions of the universe: “It is no exaggeration to say that astronomy has existed as an exact science for more than five millennia,” writes the late science historian John North. by clayt6

Definitely, however take some solace in that it seems as each year goes by, a higher percentage of people need glasses. So you can draw that backwards and infer that barely anyone needed glasses in the before times. Before the dark times. Before we started looking down instead of out.

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ramriot t1_j51qr3v wrote

You know, in the before times you know what the other predator species called humans with bad eyesight, LUNCH!

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Rajvagli t1_j52624c wrote

Agreed, natural selection would have them eliminated until “recently.”

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Dmeechropher t1_j53j41b wrote

If this were the case, then all modern humans would have what you call "good eyesight". Predation hasn't been an issue for humans for only a few thousand years, which is not generally enough for a trait like bad eyesight to diffuse into society if it were previously under selective pressure.

For instance, modern (and honestly eve ancient) humans have no need for the ability to wiggle their ears, but most people have the muscle and can be taught to use it. Non-human ancestors used this muscle to detect predators more accurately.

Additionally: strong acuity distance vision isn't what helps spot predators. Hearing, motion sensitivity, and color vision are way more effective in this regard. In fact, I'd wager that the invention of the bow actually increased the visual acuity of the human population, since ability to use a bow and thrown spear at long ranges was a heavily favorable trait for tens of thousands of years, and, critically, during the ice age, when natural selection was particularly heavy.

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Rajvagli t1_j55t7py wrote

But those that didn’t have an increase visual acuity would have been worse off than those that did right? Potentially leading to their genetic lines ending.

Asking to learn.

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Dmeechropher t1_j56g9nl wrote

Maybe, hard to say. Speculating about evolution which didn't happen is really hard because evolution is an emergent process that doesn't happen for single traits in a vacuum.

What we can do is take a look at animals with high visual acuity who are otherwise unrelated. Birds, Cats, and (weirdly) Tarsiers are probably the acuity standouts in nature, and they are all predators. Prey with the best vision don't tend to have remarkable acuity, instead, they have improved field of view (goats, rabbits, etc). So it seems like "bad vision= you're lunch" doesn't really apply that well in examples we can see.

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Kitchen_Music1302 t1_j53g10v wrote

I disagree. The bad eyesight the average person has now wouldn't of been such a hindrance they couldn't forage

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ammonium_bot t1_j54i7wp wrote

> now wouldn't of been

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Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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Rajvagli t1_j55tjtx wrote

I’m not so sure about that, I had -4 vision and couldn’t see anything in focus farther than a foot away. Are you saying that I wouldn’t have more difficulty gathering and foraging than someone with better vision?

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Kitchen_Music1302 t1_j55uu78 wrote

I'm sure you would I just wouldn't think to the degree that you get kicked out of a village of die of starvation. If that is true though, there were a lot of roles for people to have in a village that didn't require good vision. Fishing, helping with child rearing or gathering wood for example

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Rajvagli t1_j55xz8w wrote

Fair point, I guess I’m not familiar with family/tribal roles enough to know one way or another. To me, poor eyesight is a negative trait, and I would expect back then, it would be harder to find a mate with such a weakness. Therefor, limiting the genetic pool of that individual.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j53qkvb wrote

That isn't how it works. Natural selection is a filter limiting what is possible. It isn't like if people with bad eyesight are more likely to survive today compared to the past that all of us will have bad eyesight it is more like there is going to be people with bad eyesight not dying as much now.

Besides we have bad eyesight now because we are indoors all the time. But on the plus side lazy eye is becoming a thing of the past.

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ramriot t1_j53rjxp wrote

I think you just spend some time to prepare an answer where you contradicted yourself in the same paragraph

I on the other hand took only a few seconds to intimate a possibility humorously

Let's see what survival of the fittest says about that

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Rajvagli t1_j55ubet wrote

I would ask you to rewrite your 2nd sentence and try to have it make sense. Hard example to follow, doesn’t give me any insight into how NS works.

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TurelSun t1_j52cm6q wrote

Curious if you mean nearsighted people or all people needing glasses. There are tons of farsighted people like myself that need glasses to live in our modern society to get by, but wouldn't be significantly impacted even just a few hundred years ago if we didn't need to read or work with things on a small scale. I can see the stars just fine without my glasses. Additionally as people age they tend to need glasses as well and today people are living longer generally, so that is also creating more need.

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atomfullerene t1_j52sgbh wrote

> Before the dark times.

In a quite literal sense....it seems nearsightedness happens because children spend more time indoors, in conditions of indoor lighting. Indoor lighting is a whole lot dimmer than outdoor light, and that means the signaling process the eyes use to control their growth doesn't work properly.

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alloslothrus t1_j52t3cd wrote

Some even argue that you shouldn’t wear sunglasses outside all the time, and also gazing sun rises and sunsets does wonders.

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Calfredie01 t1_j52z918 wrote

Or we are simply better at diagnosing eye issues and people are more aware of them and have better access to them

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ClearOptics t1_j532vpp wrote

Yeah…instead of just always looking at a fixed distance (screens)

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