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Halaku OP t1_jdswcdm wrote

>U.S. District Court Judge John G. Koeltl said that the Internet Archive was making “derivative” works by turning print books into ebooks and distributing them.

Right call? Wrong call? Law hasn't caught up to technology yet?

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[deleted] t1_jdswrfi wrote

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[deleted] t1_jdt64y5 wrote

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FilteringOutSubs t1_jdtxquq wrote

> They aren't freely distributing though.

Except, as you say, for the period where they did that exactly which triggered the lawsuit and why the Internet Archive lost to summary judgment.

You can't just except away the biggest reason for the lawsuit...

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EtherMan t1_jdta3pd wrote

So first of all, I don't think you ever looked at their system. When you checked out a book, it was a complete honor system that you deleted the file. There was no returning of anything. They just didn't lend it out again for 30 days, which was the time after which you were supposed to delete the file, but no checks were ever done. You didn't even have to go in and click a button promising that you had. It WAS freely, and you even admit that it wasn't even restricted at all for months.

It's not at all as normal libraries. Libraries pay vast sums to be allowed to operate as they do. Every time a book is checked out in a library, the library pays, IA wasn't.

And 300 authors asking to drop it means there's millions that didn't... That's REALLY not an argument in favor of your position as you seem to think.

All that being said, as for changing the law, well, to make what IA did legal, you would either have to make IA immune to copyright or abolish copyright entirely. It's not a matter of that WHAT they did should be legal because what they did is the very core of what copyright was designed to stop. Heck, regular old piracy being covered is the side effect, THIS is the core.

Abolishing copyright isn't going to happen any time soon, even if it is the option I personally would vote for, and making IA as they are immune to copyright is just plain never going to happen. The most likely you could hope for is that a governmental institution is created that takes on the role and is immune, but even that is a very, VERY far fetch. This outcome was clear from the beginning, and IA should have known that long before they began the project.

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[deleted] t1_jdu1285 wrote

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EtherMan t1_jdubdr7 wrote

That's simply not true about their format. Heck I still have copies of books around, they're not protected in any way. And this would not be part of court opinion but in fact finding.

Could be it was 14 days. Don't remember. I remember it as 30 though. That's kind of besides the point though.

The lending model isn't in question, or it is but its not really the core issue. Them distributing illegal copies though is. That's why no, you cannot just exempt distributing digital copies if the original is held. You've still made an illegal copy that you're now distributing. You have to make the copying itself legal in order to make the distribution legal. And if you make the copying legal, well now nothing is stopping you from selling those copies and thus copyright falls. You'd have to completely redo the entire copyright system from the ground up to focus on the distribution instead for your proposal to work but copyright is about the copying, not the distribution.

And there's just so many things wrong with your examples. You can record a show on tv yes, but you cannot distribute that. Or specifically, you cannot record it either if your purpose is to distribute it. You're only allowed to make such copies for personal use, IA is not making copies for personal use.

What you can and cannot copy for a classroom lesson is controlled by deals the school makes. It never allows for copying entire books. For critique, you're again not allowed to just copy the entire thing. It's not that you can't make exemptions, but IA's copying cannot be made an exemption without copyright as a whole falling. I'm all for that, but it's not going to happen.

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[deleted] t1_jdtip35 wrote

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EtherMan t1_jdu8p89 wrote

First sale doctrine doesn't apply between conpanies no. When it's two companies, and both libraries and authors are companies, then the contract terms apply. There are no consumer protections between them. That being said, I don't mean necessarily in terms of public lending rights as some countries have but rather that a book has a limited lifespan before it falls apart and library has to buy another copy. They can't just print out missing pages and stuff like that. So there is that cost of buying (and library books tend to be more expensive because sturdier binding and pages), divided by number of times it was able to be lent out.

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roo-ster t1_jdtj0lv wrote

> Every time a book is checked out in a library, the library pays,

At least in this country (USA) this is not the case.

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EtherMan t1_jdu8ywi wrote

It is though. Unless the library gets their books for free, which isn't normal, then they buy the books at a cost. But books have a limited lifespan. The more it's lent out the more it gets worn and eventually it's thrown away and replaced by, buying another copy, which is another cost. That results in that every lending does cost.

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zoupishness7 t1_jdtp6cw wrote

But what if I scan a library book that I check out at a library? Seems to me, the only issue is the ease of making a copy, not the potential of retaining one.

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EtherMan t1_jdu9vx0 wrote

Then you commit a crime. Not by retaining the copy but by making it. You generally cannot commit a crime by passivity though such as by not doing something. So simply retaining a copy you legally acquired cannot be illegal. As a comparison, if you rent a car, but never return it, then that's not a crime. It's generally called theft by conversion but it's a civil matter, not a criminal one. In IA's case though, they were the one making that copy. That you could commit the same crime another way doesn't really absolve theirs.

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SarahSplatz t1_jdtyk7u wrote

There's never been a better time to learn to pirate.

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danielravennest t1_jdvjn9e wrote

Save the Internet Archive - to your hard drive :-). I've done thousands of books that way in the course of my personal research.

The popular "pirate" sites are better at new and popular stuff, while the IA is better at old and obscure material. They are not the same.

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TheAnonFeels t1_jdwk1nm wrote

I have used 'pirate' sites to archive tons of older material, you just gotta look for it. Thought that said, IA has a much bigger collection

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