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drgrubtown t1_jdjdbwf wrote

Reply to comment by dungone in Apple employees face reprisals, possible termination over return to office policy by OutlandishnessOk2452

If actually showing up to work is too abusive for you, then just start your own tech company and make your own rules.

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dungone t1_jdjg9m3 wrote

I don't need to start my own company to demand that I get paid for my time. That applies to every job, ever. I also don't need to start my own company to negotiate the terms of my labor and working conditions. This is especially true for exempt salaried positions for high skilled professionals. They are the subject matter experts, not the executives. If you don't believe it then let's switch to hourly pay with time and a half overtime. Then we'll talk.

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drgrubtown t1_jdjin9b wrote

If a company pays you to show up to work, then either show up or don't work there. Again, if you feel like the work arrangement is abusive, then you're free to not work there.

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dungone t1_jdn5n8c wrote

They're literally not paying you to show up to work. Out of all the things they pay you for, that is the one thing they definitely don't.

Moreover, that's not how any of this works. Professional relationships between employer and professional are built around mutual respect. You have no idea how much damage this is doing to employers. They can never be respected again by any employee who works for them.

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drgrubtown t1_jdn63q9 wrote

I mean, showing up is a precondition for like 90% of jobs but go off on why youre special

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dungone t1_jdn6dcs wrote

What is it that you do for a living? It might make it easier for me to explain how this works to you if I knew where you're actually coming from.

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drgrubtown t1_jdn9tgq wrote

It doesn't really matter what I do for a living. If you have a job where a precondition is that you show up to work, dressed in clothes, and showered. Then either do that, or don't agree to work there if you think that's unfair. Real simple.

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dungone t1_jdnaf2c wrote

It matters because you don't even understand what the word "precondition" means. Clearly you have never worked as a professional in a professional setting.

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drgrubtown t1_jdnhmty wrote

Can you explain why you think that? Or does that extend beyond your ability?

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dungone t1_jdpi8im wrote

Yes, I can explain it. Professionalism is built upon mutual respect between employer and employee, for many reasons. Let’s start by saying that it is just as important for the employer to listen to the professional as the other way around. That means there are no “preconditions” or other wage-slave concepts involved. Employers who lose the respect of their professional staff are unlikely to continue to succeed. Professional relationships are fundamentally different from unskilled labor relationships because employers are specifically depending on professionals to tell them about the best way to accomplish the job and compete in the marketplace. It’s the same reason why you’ll hire a lawyer instead of representing yourself in court - because you actually want to win and you’re not stupid enough to believe that you know best

But, imagine a simpler scenario. Imagine if you hired a plumber and you told him to use toilet paper tubes for plumbing instead of actual pipes. Yes, the plumber will tell you to go fuck your self and refuse to carry out the job the way you want. But the bigger issue is that if you plumb your house with toilet paper tubes, you’re going to be sorry. Your plumbing won’t work. You should have listened to your plumber.

Does that make sense?

So when you are playing these simple dumb-shit power dynamics in your head about who is paying for what and what they get to decide, it’s not that simple.

Let’s put it another way. If every Apple employee who disagreed with Apple HR and MBA brain farts decided to actually quit, everyone would lose. The professionals would have to find jobs that paid less. And Apple would ultimately go to the waste bin of history.

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