Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Poltras t1_iuf1v4r wrote

I’m going to be a bit /r/UnpopularOpinion here and state that age should be verified and exposed all over the place on the internet. Names, gender/associations, etc could all be hidden or anonymous and I’d be happy, but we should force every users on social media to disclose their age (or at least a few choices, like teenage, YA, etc).

My discussions here and on many other platforms would be way healthier if I knew I’m taking to a 12 year old or a 40 year old.

Edit: I was expecting the downvotes but if you guys wanna start a discussion instead I’d be much more appreciative.

−51

acoolusersknee t1_iuf33lx wrote

So the problem I see is the only way to verify age is via some form of identification. That identification is going to be stored and sold whether the website admits to it or not. You shouldn't expect to have a quality discussion with anyone on the internet until they display that they are capable of having one.

33

685327593 t1_iufc1oj wrote

Exactly. Only way to verify age is to verify identity. The two can't be separated.

16

Uristqwerty t1_iug996y wrote

Pretty much everyone has a phone, right? And pretty much every phone has a TPM that can store cryptographic keys and self-destruct rather than ever let them leak, right? So, you need two keys: One proof-of-age key that's the same for everyone, perhaps generated fresh each month by the government, for which simply having access to the key says that you're over the threshold and nothing more. Then, a unique-to-you key generated by your phone that is only used once a month on a fixed date to fetch the latest proof-of-age key. Setting that one up may require visiting a government office in-person once to verify your identity. Then, everyone over 18 in a single nation looks alike to the websites asking for your identity. To ensure they don't sneakily swap out the proof key for targeted individuals, each month's public half would be made public, for all users and websites alike to see. Perhaps have the TPM verify a fingerprint or face match before unlocking the proof key.

And if that's a scheme that a cryptography amateur can come up with in minutes, based on a high-level understanding of TPMs and SSL certificates, imagine what someone who properly understands M-of-N secret sharing, zero-knowledge proofs, and all sorts of other clever mathematical tools could do, given months to refine their design and peers to identify and help correct flaws all along the way!

2

KonChaiMudPi t1_iufekys wrote

This is the biggest problem, and this is entirely why I’m against it. Either A.) Your age cannot be rigidly/effectively verified, because it’s a gameable system, or B.) Your age is directly tied to information that is far too personal to disclose in this way.

As an aside, a big problem with this proposed system is that exposing minors online as minors makes them even bigger targets for exploitation, all while someone who manages to impersonate a young person is given the perfect sheep’s-clothing to do it in. It is an extremely dangerous concept.

13

Bhraal t1_iufuqvd wrote

> all while someone who manages to impersonate a young person is given the perfect sheep’s-clothing to do it in. It is an extremely dangerous concept.

If the system is based on positively identifying someone as a minor I can totally see someone having/getting access to the credentials of their own or a relative's kids and using that to set up a profile. Hell, if they are controlling enough they could probably use a kids actual account and pressuring them to stay silent.

On the other end parents let their guard down because they believe everyone else their kid can interact with is verified.

4

KonChaiMudPi t1_iufxf3z wrote

> On the other end parents let their guard down because they believe everyone else their kid can interact with is verified.

This is the biggest problem even today with online safety is parents who don’t take accountability for protecting their kids. With the current state of the internet, it needs to be treated a lot like a public place. Would you let your young children just free roam in public and interact with whoever with no supervision?

It’s challenging because I see both sides of that conversation, I’ve been a minor who often felt monitored, and who escaped into online communities, and it is important that kids can have some sense of privacy. In a broad sense though, I think parents still need to be aware of roughly how their children spend their time online and roughly who they are interacting with.

I’ve seen a few different stories lately about parents suing major tech companies because their children got hurt by people online or through an online platform. I understand the desire to lash out in a challenging situation but the truth is as a parent you need to be responsible for protecting your children online, because the world won’t do it for you.

1

[deleted] t1_iufiffd wrote

Agreed, I am against this as well. This doesn't have to be inevitable, we can fight against it, and we will.

3

leopard_tights t1_iufdpzh wrote

You set up a trusted partner (like with the new passkeys) that verifies that you're of age, or over X years old, not the exact number. And that's it. Easy peasy lemon squeasy.

−3

JackIsBackWithCrack t1_iuf3554 wrote

You’re an advertiser’s best friend!

17

Poltras t1_iuf41iq wrote

That’s okay. The best advertisers can already figure it out just by listing your comment history.

−18

Mikatron3000 t1_iuf33g2 wrote

I think showing if someone was over 18 or not would be better than showing their full age imo

3

UrbanGhost114 t1_iufdi8y wrote

Please look up the book Common Sense, written by Thomas Paine, originally written and published anonymously.

There is no free speach without anonymous speach.

3

Makenchi45 t1_iufkmhs wrote

So flaw in that is this, IP address is kinda easy to get if the person belonging to it doesn't use a VPN or know how to set up a dynamic IP with their ISP. Having ages listed for the world to see allows someone to see that a person lives at that IP address with that age and can be traced to a physical address. Hell it wouldn't even be a stretch to say predators could use that to their advantage to find new victims regardless of what they plan to do.

2

COBE1 t1_iuf3fz9 wrote

Only if social media was regulated like a bank or hospital. With all the privacy and data control requirements.

1

conquer69 t1_iugmegx wrote

What difference does it make? We already have 30yo with the mental and emotional intelligence of a 13yo.

1