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MadLintElf t1_iuec6u4 wrote

So many of the batteries are manufactured on the cheap. They are not compartmentalized and cause a chain reaction that results in catastrophic failure.

Those types of batteries need to be banned, I have shops in my neighborhood and looking at the batteries you can't just tell. Best to pay more money from a reputable dealer and of course don't mismatch chargers.

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Smith6612 t1_iuev5fk wrote

I remember Louis Rossmann going through something similar with his eBike, where the manufacturer of one battery company was found cutting corners and not being up front about it. He went as far as demonstrating the protections of another battery on live stream, and explaining the situation which caused his battery set to go on fire.

Lithium batteries are no joke.

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DavidJAntifacebook t1_iuexmgg wrote

> He went as far as demonstrating the protections of another battery on live stream, and explaining the situation which caused his battery set to go on fire.

Would you link to this?

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Aleucard t1_iufv18n wrote

Might take a bit for me to find where he tore down the proper well-made battery to show how it's done, but here is where he talks about his Unit Pack Power battery deciding it wanted to be fireworks.

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MadLintElf t1_iuf0oiw wrote

At my hospital we use lion batteries for mobile cart computers. In the last 10 years we only had one go bad on us. These batteries run a computer/monitor for 8 hours at a time and cost around 1K USD.

When that battery went the housing split and out of a pinhole smoke shot out, thankfully no flames. We put it in a metal bin, put the bin in a cinderblock walled stairwell and let the fire department handle it. But thankfully no cascade failure.

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askjacob t1_iugcz9p wrote

Are they Lithium Polymer, or Lithium Iron Phosphate?

The latter have slightly less capacity, but are considerably less spicy and can handle thousands of charge cycles so tend to be used more in situations like this.

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MadLintElf t1_iuinyjm wrote

The one's at work are Lithium Polymer, we need the energy density for the devices. That being said I'm glad we went with them based on the track record.

We did have an option for cheaper batteries, but the company wouldn't provide a warranty since we would be buying from another manufacturer that only covered replacements. They specifically had in the documentation that they were not responsible for overcharging the batteries or battery failure damages.

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VincentNacon t1_iuepe0m wrote

Yeah, I've been saying this over and over again... They really need to spread out the battery cells inside the battery pack, so it could vent heat and cool down better. A bike has a lot of spaces to spread them out.

For an example, could be inside the long tube inside the bike's frame, all the way from rear to front, top to bottom.

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Afro_Thunder69 t1_iuet9fh wrote

How would you charge the battery if it's built into the frame? Bringing your bike up an apartment building isn't always feasible but bringing a removable battery is

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Bsomin t1_iuetiri wrote

they have structural/integral batteries that form part of the frame but are also removable

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apimpnamedmidnight t1_iueu567 wrote

I was about to say that was a bad idea, but I bet it would be fine on a commuter bike. They shouldn't see anything more crazy than a drop off the curb or a pothole

I pity the poor soul that tries to take it off even a small ramp, though

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VincentNacon t1_iuexkkw wrote

It doesn't have to be like that. It's possible to spread out the weight and yet keep the Center of Mass in the same spot.

If anything, it would make it easier to carry/lift compared to having it all in one spot.

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bigfatmatt01 t1_iuf4zh8 wrote

Yeah and don't bike riders tend to take part of the bike with them anyway if they park it outside, like the handlebars or a detachable front wheel?

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rex30303 t1_iuf7eye wrote

At most what i have seen is the seat if it is tightended with a quick release.

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bigfatmatt01 t1_iufeaeb wrote

I may be remembering the movie quicksilver with Kevin Bacon

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WhenAmI t1_iug9gui wrote

Quick release front tires are very common on decent bikes.

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rex30303 t1_iugxufa wrote

Yes but people dont take them with them.

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Shiftlock0 t1_iufacfr wrote

Sounds complicated compared to a simple snap-on battery. I wonder how much this would add to the cost of the average bike?

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VincentNacon t1_iuexvqx wrote

Yeah, it'd have to be charged right on the spot.

But then, it's possible to open the end of the tube and pull the battery out. There are some flexibility in the designs process.

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MadLintElf t1_iuf1lzo wrote

Ever watch Jerry Rig Everything on Youtube, Zack does a teardown of a Rivian truck's battery pack. All compartmentalized, big honking blocks of batteries with cooling components.

It's a lot more doable than you think.

As for putting them in the frame, it sounds good but would still have to reside in the lower portion to keep the center of gravity proper.

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ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_iufd8us wrote

When batteries fail its typically not due to over heating but rather a loose piece of metal contacting the wrong terminal, or water damage. Having them spread out might help these issues but then you need much more wiring to connect all these batteries. Plus how would you remove them from inside the frame once they need to be replaced?

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deep-space-runner t1_iuers07 wrote

Are they battery standards and certifications one should look for?

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teamdilly t1_iuewd6b wrote

UL 2849 is the gold standard certification. You can also ask to see the battery’s UN 38.3 certification, which is required for transport of lithium ion batteries internationally.

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MadLintElf t1_iuf0f0t wrote

For car and other lion batteries yes there are, but ebikes are just off the shelf batteries that are shipped with no certifications they just work.

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Wizywig t1_iufqieg wrote

a) there needs to be a regalatory charger protocol so that there's no such thing as mismatched chargers

b) we need to force inspections on ebikes just like we do with cars. They need to be license plated and restricted. That way we can say what types of batteries are permitted and inspections mandatory

Unfortunately public safety.

But unfortunately ebikes don't fit the motor vehicle description because they're too slow for MV and too fast for manual bikes. It creates a very weird gap in the law.

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MadLintElf t1_iuio7is wrote

And boy do we love to exploit gaps in the law since people are making money and other people are being misled at the least and seriously harmed at the worst.

Here in NYC I've been hit by two e-bikes in the last 3 years. Both times they were on the sidewalk at night, no lights and I was hit from behind.

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Wizywig t1_iuj4qvm wrote

Streets are suggestions

Traffic laws are suggestions

Red lights are suggestions

Speed limits are suggestions

Lights on the vehicle are suggestions

​

I wasn't hit, but came close to running multiple over as they cut into me. It is a menace.

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ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_iueweth wrote

Its extremly difficult to compartmentalize batteries and have them fit a nice form factor to fit inside pevs. Most bats I've seen are Lion which are really just 24+ single cell batteries spot welded together. I suspect some of these welding are shotty. Also i see a lot of people riding in the rain... yeah that does not mix. Even with claims that your device is waterproof. Don't think anything will change until battery tech gets much better.

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MadLintElf t1_iuf09oc wrote

Rivan does it with there vehicle batteries, Tesla does it as well. At my hospital we use mobius batteries, they last 8 hours but I've seen them disassembled and they are just a bunch of separate batteries.

It is more costly, but like the mobiuis battery I mentioned above, when one battery goes it's just one battery, a bit of smoke and that's it. The crappy one's do have bad soldering and nothing to keep that cascade from happening.

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RSquared t1_iufn68m wrote

Most PEV battery packs are just 18650s in combination of series/parallel, e.g. the most common e-skateboard pack is 3s10p (3 series of 10 parallel batteries, usually Samsung 30q or 25r 18650s). Add a voltage regulation board and you've got a PEV battery.

I know some DIY battery-makers and they're crazy like lacrosse goalies. But it's way cheaper to make a 4s12p battery that can do 35mph with 40 mile range than to buy one.

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UncreativeTeam t1_iuf047x wrote

If you can't tell which are which, then how will bans on existing ones be enforced?

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MadLintElf t1_iuf1phn wrote

That's why I laugh about it, regulate it then ban the one's that don't follow the regulations.

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