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marketrent OP t1_ix1k0tq wrote

Excerpt:

>Major players in the semiconductor supply chain in East Asia appear to be seeing it as inevitable for them to decouple with China in advanced industries involving sensitive technology, given concerns about the rapid pace of Beijing's military modernization.

>The United States is taking the lead in building a "Chip 4" alliance with Taiwan, South Korea and Japan for increased economic security over a possible global chip crunch in the event of a contingency between Taiwan and China.

> 

>Mariko Togashi, a research fellow for Japanese security and defense policy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, said in an interview that a complete decoupling with China is unlikely, but selective decoupling in certain areas involving sensitive technology, something like precision-guided strikes, will progress.

>Togashi said it is very costly -- and impossible in many cases -- to build a completely self-reliant supply chain, so like-minded nations must be included in the circle.

>Such efforts have been under way through the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework, a U.S.-led initiative that seeks to build resilient supply chains in the Indo-Pacific.

>The 14-member IPEF, also involving Japan, Australia, South Korea and India -- but not China -- will start formal negotiations in December.

Takaki Tominaga for Kyodo, 20 November 2022 09:10 JST.

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justhereforass2 t1_ix1o32w wrote

There’s a lot on the line in this next decade. Will be interesting to see how things develop

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I_am_a_Dan t1_ix288gm wrote

I want to live in boring times

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_ix2kome wrote

Well buckle up, we're about to enter what historians refer to as "The Cool Zone".

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lovocado t1_ix2jdb2 wrote

With a few wives I presume 😉

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somebrains t1_ix1of5g wrote

If the tax breaks happen, movement will ensue

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tampora701 t1_ix5g1gm wrote

E. Asia chipmunks what??

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PMzyox t1_ix5dzfu wrote

Would it even be possible? All of the infrastructure and skilled labor exist in China for pennies on the dollar

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TipTapTips t1_ix2agf2 wrote

>Mariko Togashi, a research fellow for Japanese security and defense policy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, said in an interview that a complete decoupling with China is unlikely, but selective decoupling in certain areas involving sensitive technology, something like precision-guided strikes, will progress.

So basically nothing, they're just trying to force China in innovating domestically instead of joining the global market place. Meh.

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MyNameCannotBeSpoken t1_ix2sd6l wrote

No, it's about a supply chain and manufacturing capabilities independent of Chinese pressure

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supaloopar t1_ix35e4w wrote

Chinese pressure….?

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Helfix t1_ix3xofy wrote

Well you know, in case of war or other stand-offs, China could withold critical pieces of the chip supply chain forcing the other country to cave to their pressure.

You know, like how Russia used natural gas and oil on Europe, but applied to Chip supply chain.

Chips are critical to every single nation’s security and the recent war basically made everyone aware of how bad its to have all your eggs in a single basket.

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supaloopar t1_ix6y4tf wrote

That would make sense if Russia was the one that cut off the oil and gas.

Europe and US did that to themselves, they wielded the Almighty sanctions card.

If anything, to your example, the rest of the world has been reliable in delivering to the contract. The West on the other hand have shown how schizophrenic they can be, and rely on their media to blame the other party for their self-inflicted pain.

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fitzroy95 t1_ix1p9jw wrote

Its going to be interesting to see how many of them are able to balance US trade war demands vs China trade.

Many would prefer to remain neutral in that trade war, but the US has a way of forcing a commitment to join their corporate agenda

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WexfordHo t1_ix1qb3v wrote

Whereas China just wants everyone to be happy and is not at all in the money-grubbing business. /s

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circumtopia t1_ix37nzl wrote

So what has China done to corral nations into their trade war with the US? Who have they told to cut off exports from the US, including companies that aren't even located in China? You know... Like the US has done?

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ChaosDancer t1_ix2k4jh wrote

"The value of the semiconductor market worldwide was 530 billion in 2021 and is projected to reach 1.3 trillion in 2029.

China in 2020 imported chips valued at 350 billion, so the US has successfully sanctioned the worldwide semiconductor industry by 66%."

Furthermore both Samsung and TSMC got a one year waiver to supply their plants in China so congratulations, the US sanctioned it's own industry for South Korea and Taiwan and if this is not a self own i don't know what it is.

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aquarain t1_ix1wxro wrote

China is a sleeping dragon in tech. I promise that they have the wit and will to achieve dominance in that domain organically. All attempts to isolate them from Western technology does is prod the dragon to wake.

They topped the supercomputer charts with a vast Intel Xeon Phi spend, so Obama nixed the Phi for them. So China made it a national security priority to develop their own processors and in a few short years they kicked our supercomputing ass with their home grown chips. And now they quit showing off the progress since.

The right approach is one that sells them just enough stuff to keep them dependent, but not dominant. Too much restraint and they're motivated to excel.

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Justtryme90 t1_ix22ehz wrote

Chinese researchers are dopes, they are only good at stealing from others and copying.

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aquarain t1_ix23ufx wrote

This form of racism is quite popular. It's found amongst the gap-toothed denizens of Arkansas trailer parks. It's founded in the racial bias that nobody could be as smart as you and your bruncle cus he got the common sense to run a successful towing business and gets the occasional tourist girl captive in the barn for free.

Sorry, but it's just not so. China has just as many geniuses per capita as the US does, which mathematically means they have three times as many.

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FreddoMac5 t1_ix2fmus wrote

Nobody said Chinese people are dumb. Asians statistically speaking excel over everyone else in education.

China on the other hand, has a brain drain problem. It's what happens when you live in an authoritarian state.

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sheeeeeez t1_ix3ugj0 wrote

>Nobody said Chinese people are dumb.

He very clearly said Chinese researchers are dopes.

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FreddoMac5 t1_ix4u98r wrote

Which they are. Do you know what a brain drain is?

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sheeeeeez t1_ix4wths wrote

This is an idiotic conversation. He said Chinese researchers are dopes. There's no hidden meaning, it's not even subtle. It's clear racism.

Just acknowledge and move on instead of defending someone you don't know saying something racist.

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[deleted] t1_ix4yh8c wrote

[removed]

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sheeeeeez t1_ix51u0k wrote

So every researcher in China that hasn't left is a dope?

I'll stop crying if you stop being racist.

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yellowteabag t1_ix3k1xu wrote

brain drain was true >20 years ago, not really today. while authoritarianism contributes to a little, much of it is actually from poor economic conditions. now that china is consistently getting richer, this is becoming less the case. this is also happening to other south east asian as well.

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Justtryme90 t1_ix242wu wrote

I managed teams of researchers in China. I'm intimately aware of their sub par work. Most intelligent researchers have not returned to China and remain in the US.

This isn't a race thing, it's just a matter of fact that the researchers who live in China suck.

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telmimore t1_ix37yrn wrote

Yet their patents are skyrocketing, their scientific journal impact is skyrocketing, they ranked #1 for selected research papers in a recent prestigious chip conference, etc. Etc. Your anecdotes are meaningless vs actual objective measures.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/China-tops-U.S.-to-take-research-crown-at-global-chip-conference

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01231-w

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Bubblepop123 t1_ix3r2eh wrote

The article you linked is simply stating that China ranked first in the amount published research papers accepted. That says absolutely nothing about how well their semiconductor industry is compared to the U.S. Seems like you’re really grasping at straws.

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telmimore t1_ix3tl44 wrote

Why don't you read the fucking comment I replied to? He claimed China doesn't have good researchers, yet they just outdid the US at the top semiconductor conference on the planet that is highly selective on which papers they accept. I at no point claimed their semiconductor industry is already leading edge (although I'm sure they will catch up way faster than anyone expects). God damn you're all so brainwashed.

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deftonite t1_ix414nx wrote

You're confused by quantity vs quality. The doc you're using for the basis of your arguement says that Chinese submitted more papers. It doesn't speak to the quality or impact of those papers. Any group can manufacture useless papers to have the appearance of superiority. Just as any redditor can shitpost useless claims repeatedly in an attempt to change perception. Just look at your posts here for verification.

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telmimore t1_ix4isbe wrote

The conference only selects the best papers. Hence, quality. The fact that you can't comprehend this simple logic and are still going on about "quality over quantity hurrr durr" is astonishing frankly.

The nature index only looks at high quality papers as well. Again, if you read the link you'd have known this and wouldn't have gone on to your irrelevant rhetoric.

What's amazing is at least 3 other simpletons chose to vote you up and give you awards for straight up incorrect bullshit.

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[deleted] t1_ix3yox2 wrote

[removed]

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telmimore t1_ix4i53f wrote

What does a ballpoint pen have to do with anything when they sent a fucking rover to Mars? Jeezus Christ it's like y'all operate from a script. Not sure if this bot behaviour or just typical American sheeplike behaviour.

I find it amusing you were so offended you had to message me some juvenile bullshit.

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Bubblepop123 t1_ix3q608 wrote

Is that why China couldn’t develop a ballpoint pen without importing foreign resources until 2017?

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