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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu8ofdr wrote

Reply to comment by deathtomonkeys in What 'Rings of Power' Does — And Can Do — Better Than Peter Jackson's Films by chrisbokiul

Can you define mystery box for me?

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PvtHudson093 t1_iu8p48j wrote

Here watch the master of mystery boxes talk about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjVgF5JDq8&ab_channel=TED

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu8pb63 wrote

Yeah I’ve seen the video, so have maybe a quarter of the people who I hear using the term on Reddit. I don’t think they use mystery boxes in the show. Mystery boxes imply they are never opened. We have answers to many of the “mystery boxes” already.

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PvtHudson093 t1_iu8pnz5 wrote

Its more that the 2 show runners are disciples of JJ and people start throwing it around.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu8ptrj wrote

There’s no proof they are though really right? Just they worked together in the past and he helped put in a good word for them before they interviewed? I feel like Reddit took this piece of information and blew it up to much bigger conclusions than it actually is. Writers help writers get each other jobs all the time, doesn’t mean one is someone’s “disciple”. Shit if Abrams helped me get a job I’d take it, wouldn’t you?

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BlobFishPillow t1_iu9jogq wrote

Don't waste your breath, redditors become brain dead and start foaming out of their mouths any time this show is mentioned. Their hatred is unhinged and unreasonable.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9jynu wrote

Yeah they really just watched a YouTube video or two and think they know everything about writing now, flagrantly misusing terms and misidentifying how stories are told

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DiscreteConnected t1_iu9i4ok wrote

Mystery boxes don't imply that they are never opened. It just means that the writers use mysteries to drive the story. This is exactly what rings of power did.

Instead of telling a story with the stranger, they strung the viewers along for 8 episodes to wonder about his identity and purpose. Instead of telling the story of Sauron manipulating the elves into making the rings, they tried to set up this big reveal moment about his identity. And then they rushed through the forging of the rings sloppily in about 15 minutes.

At pretty much every turn they chose to go with mystery rather than storytelling.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9jp6j wrote

> "I bought this decades ago, but if you look at this, you'll see it's never been opened. Ever," said Abrams. "Why have I not opened this, and why have I kept it?… It represents infinite possibility. It represents hope. It represents potential. What I love about this box — and what I realized I sort of do, in whatever it is that I do — is I find myself drawn to infinite possibility and that sense of potential. And I realize that mystery is the catalyst for imagination... What are stories besides mystery boxes?"

Literally every tv show or film uses a lack of fill information to drive the plot. It’s a basic part of story telling. When Abrams talks about mystery boxes, as he does above, it’s with the intention that some things are better without explanations.

They also have a lot of story left with Sauron including 17 more rings to make and deceive around…..

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DiscreteConnected t1_iu9l1th wrote

Not every show uses mystery in lieu of plot and character development in the way that rings a power does though. Look at the Harfoot/Strangers story for example - 8 episodes went by with basically nothing happening in terms of plot or character development in that story. And it was all so they could have a big reveal at the end for some nostalgia points.

The rest of the show was structured around the Sauron reveal, and it was a lot worse for it. It's just a cheap way to write a show in my opinion.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9lo21 wrote

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. The stranger developed from an inability to speak and no understanding of who he even is, to realizing he’s an Istar and deciding he’s there to do good. Poppy went from feeling no repercussions to her actions to feeling guilt and shame for who she was to embracing her adventurous side. It’s the first season so perfect arcs aren’t to be expected here, we’re just learning these characters. That’s pretty typical for a TV show….

And they aren’t foregoing plot for mystery’s. GoT had plenty of mystery’s in the first season, so do most shows, especially police / crime dramas etc.

The Sauron reveal was a major plot point of the season, but it wasn’t the only one, the forging of mount doom, the rings, the events in the south lands with the rise of the orc and fleeing of humans, establishment of colonies that will become key places for the story etc, all happened amid the Halbrand arc.

I understand critiquing dialogue or pacing of the story, but to say nothing happened and it’s just mystery boxes makes me wonder if we’re even watching the same show….

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DiscreteConnected t1_iu9mo1c wrote

Well I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. The Stranger suddenly going from not being able to speak to talking in metaphors and literally saying "I'm good" is hardly character development.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9mwv8 wrote

They explained that though, and it wasn’t entirely sudden. He had developed speech overtime and the mystics lifted the rest of the vale. Out of curiosity what did I say that was wrong?

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DiscreteConnected t1_iu9oawb wrote

The stranger being able to talk and literally saying "I'm good" is not character development. It's just finding out who he is and a pretty terrible line of dialogue as well.

The show absolutely did put mysteries before plot. The clunky pacing proves it. There were two full episodes spent on the Numenoreans debating whether or not to sail to ME and then the forging of the rings happens in 10 minutes. I don't understand how you can argue in good faith that they didn't structure this show around the big reveal.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9pgm1 wrote

I mean he goes from literally questioning his existence to declaring he’s there for good…. We know several istar were corrupted so it absolutely isn’t pre programmed for him to align with forces of good, especially not when others are trying to lead him to be evil. He literally goes from asking if he’s bad to declaring he’s good. That’s a pretty obvious linear character progression. Not everyone has character development in one season that leads them to be a completely different character. That would likely be bad writing.

There were plot points in two episodes about Numenor, but it wasn’t “two whole episodes” and much of this was character progression for other characters / relationships etc. it would have been weird to have Numenor flip the script in one episode. Could we have seen them move right along and miss some of the plot points in episode 5? Sure, but could have felt rushed / would have missed out on some of Halbrand’s character as well as the upcoming events in Numenor, like it’s fall and the rise of the cult of morgoth.

Also there are 17 other rings to forge and it wasnt just ten minutes of the show, literally several plot points converged, halbrand, mithril, Galadriel learning to share power etc, to enable the forging of the rings….

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DiscreteConnected t1_iu9rhz3 wrote

>He literally goes from asking if he’s bad to declaring he’s good.

This happens in the course of like 10 minutes screentime. In previous episodes he hadn't even been able to speak. It was very clumisly done.

Also him being Gandalf was another example of how extremely lazy the writing is. They have practically a blank canvas with the Blue Wizards, but instead they go for the easy nostalgia points and a weak attempt to give Gandalf an MCU-esque origin story. It's like the show itself doesn't even have confidence in its own writing.

You can like the show all you want. I'm just pointing out that it has some serious flaws, and leaning too heavily on mystery over plot and character development is probably the number one problem imo.

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